TJT:ltä uutta tekstiä 25.6.2005

---Ja vaikka joidenkin näkemysten mukaan juutalaisten Jahve ja muslimien Allah ovat yksi ja sama jumala, niin yleisen näkemyksen mukaan kyseessä on eri jumalat, ja näinollen myöskään muslimikreationistit ja juutalaiset kreationistit eivät päätä Jumalan kyvyistä. Ei niistä tosin päätä kristityt kreationiskaan, eikä myöskään teistisen evoluution kannattajat, vaan tässä asiassa Raamattu on ylin auktoriteetti.---

Muslimit eivät päätä (toisille ihmisille kertoen niistä) eli eivät tiedä Jumalan kyvyistä? Raamattu ylin auktoriteetti tieteelle? Ei sitä tulkintaa kyllä teillekään jätetä, kristityt...
4:82 "Do they not consider the Qur'an (with care)? Had it been from other Than Allah, they would surely have found therein Much discrepancy. "

Antaapa Koraanin vastata, onko universumi/maapallo 6000 vuotta vanha?
(pahoittelen että olen kirjoittanut tätä suoraan englanniksi enkä jaksa alkaa kääntämään)

Let us start with age of universum in Koran:

22:47 "And surely a day with your Lord is as a thousand years of what you number."

Meaning that a Day with Allah is 1000 years for us in our reckoning in relation with the revolution of the Moon around the Earth ( it is the Hegire year) or the revolution of the Earth around the Sun ( Gregorian year).

70:4 "To Him ascend the Angels and the Spirit in a day the measure of which is fifty thousand years."

In this verse of the Sura 'The way of Ascent' ( it is the Way which take the Angels from the Earth to the Heaven after having excecuted the duties necessary for the Life of our Planet and the Kosmos. We can note that Allah doesn't say "fifty thousand years of what you number" because the day in question in this verse is a time measure of a Gods day ( which each day is 1000 years in our reckoning ) and this day is the age of the Universe which all events of our life from heaven to earth ascend to Him.
Let's convert these God's Years in our norms :
50,000 * 365.2422 (days in human year) = 18,262,110 Allah's Days. One Day by Allah is corresponding 1000 years of our reckoning, therefore the Age of the Universe is :
18,262,110 * 1,000 = 18,262,110,000 years, that's to say that the age of the Universe is around 18, 1/4 Billions years. This number correspond exactly of the above article . After more than 14 centuries, Science and particularly Professor Jean-Claude Batelere of the "College de France" states that it is now a certitude that the Universe is 18 billions years old. Calculated with moon-year it is less. Note that others secrets are hidden in these two verses, it has dual meanings.

Onko maapallo littana kuten VT ja ilmestyskirjan "maan kulmista tarttuvat enkelit" väittävät?

79:30-31 "And the earth, moreover, hath He formed in round shape (/egg shape, "dahaha", round like the ostrich's egg with the flat sand around it covering the egg from predators). He draweth out therefrom its water ("ma-aha") and its pasture."

79:31 Says either that water was draweth from earth creating pasturage for animals like dinosaurs (as it does from under surface, after rains/near oceans or rivers for example), or that land (=pasturage) was draweth from water along with water. Later would be case if earth was very "flat" after meteor bombings and forming of oceans (from water in meteors), and so covered by oceans before land started to rise through usual "easing up" after high compressing pressure (from meteors/molten planet/water) and formation of continental plates (colliding together).

55:17 "(He is) Lord of the two Easts and Lord of the two Wests:"

This is one very strong proof that author of Koran knew that earth is round. In equator both day and night is 12 hours, and when sun is rising in other side of the globe, it is setting on the other side. There is two sun rising in a 24 hours, for both sides of the globe their own, as there is two sun settings on earth inside 24 hours (imagine sun rising on Europe , and then later on Hawaiji when it is dark on Europe, it is still inside 24 hours of date-line in pacific). Also almost half of the earth is covered by Pacific Ocean, so other half is dominated by land mass (as it was stretched or bend into more crescent-like form over earth from more "flattened" single continent), so from wiew of Hawaiji (centre of ocean) west is on eastern coast of China and east is on coast of western America, and so from around Mecca (centre of land concentration) it is other way around, west is on coast of western America and east is on coast of China. If you make line from pole to pole for each side of the globe, both lines have their own east and west.

Ibn Tamiyah 1328 AC said that it is opinion of muslim scholars that earth and all "celestial bodies" are round, because in 21:33 (for example) word "falak" is means spinning wheel, also used as describeing young girls breasts. He wrote that people on other side of the earth are not below us (upsidedown), as we are not below them, because "celestial bodies" are surrounding central point (markaz), and so north is not upper than south. In muslim maps north was down and south was up.

Onko maapallo luotu ennen aurinkoa, onko jopa maan kasvillisuus luotu ennen tähtiä kuten luomiskertomus väittää?

Both earth and heavens had their own six periods ("days") of creation, here is phases for creation of the heavens (in parts below explaining how you can notice this difference in Koran):
This was one possible meaning for these six "days"/"periods of time" in creation of universum:
1."Big Bang", 2.Hydro- and helium-atoms core/centre forming couple of minutes after it , 3. 300 000 years from Big Bang Hydro- and helium-atomis formed comletely and backround radiation is formed, 4. First stars and galaxies are formed, building blocks for universum from stars exploiding, 5. Our Milky Way-galaxy is born, and so building blocks for our sun system, 6. Our sun system is born and our planet is "brought together" from meteors finally.

So here is about last two periods (/"days") of creation of heavens (in these verses about our galaxy and sun-system, happening partly same time with formation of earth causing formation of earth):
41:11-12
"Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) SMOKE (/hot gas, "Dukhaan"): He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye TOGETHER, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience." So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge."

These two "days" (periods) above are fifferent from ayats 9-10, obviously last two "days" in ayat 11. ("smoke"= 5.formation of our milky way-galaxy, "come ye together"= 6.birth of our sun system). "To it and to earth" may also mean both separately or both coming together, or then both, as in meteor-bombing of earth. As we know, starfogs forming galaxies especially in the early stages of universum (more recently our own galaxy and its star-system of sun, what "sky" means obviously here) have been plenty of looking like smoke filling the space before higher amount of stars and planets, and look like smoke even now (in more younger systems). "Dukhaan" (arabic) in Koran means smoke/HOT gas. These "circles of clouds" formed for example planets, so "sky" did come "together" WITH ITSELF. Matter of Earth has been born from stardust before our star developed, and so it is originated from explosions of earlier stars and their "smoke/gas", also more harder rocks and dust were brought "together" to form the earth. Moon of earth were born from collision of Earth and planet size of Mars, so "sky" (our galaxy and star-system) and Earth BOTH coming together most likely means that (and bombardment of asteroids). If beduin back then realized that earth and sky have same origin, it is BIG miracle itself. Later Earth came "together" ALSO WITH ITSELF when it cooled down and were devided into different layors.

Ovatko fossiilit niin vanhoja, että ne ja alkuaineet voivat lopulta muuttua raudaksikin (vai onko ne vain luotu näyttämään vanhoilta ilman muutoksen mahdollisuutta, ilman ominaisuutta vanheta oikeasti, minkä luulisi olevan kyseessä jos niiden "ikä" on vain "ladattu" niihin ilman luonnon vaikutusta, eihän ruosteinen purkkikaan hajoa jos se on vain maalattu ruosteisen näköiseksi)?

17:49-52 "They say: "What! when we are reduced to bones and dust, should we really be raised up (to be) a new creation?". Say: "(Nay!) be ye ROCKS or IRON, "Or created matter which, in your minds, is hardest (to be raised up),- (Yet shall ye be raised up)!" then will they say: "Who will cause us to return?" Say: "He who created you first!" Then will they wag their heads towards thee, and say, "When will that be?" Say, "May be it will be quite soon!
"It will be on a Day when He will call you, and ye will answer (His call) with (words of) His praise, and ye will think that ye tarried but a little while!"

We all know what kind of rocks fossiles are, but also iron is our future, all our atoms will turn to iron in very long time.

Mitä on evoluutio ja miten Jeesus syntyi, kehittyi ja kasvoi kohtuun/kohdussa?

29:19-20 "See they not how Allah originates the creation, THEN REPEATS IT. Verily, that is easy for Allah. Say (Muhammed): ´Travel in the land and see how Allah originated the creation: SO WILL ALLAH PRODUCE A LATER CREATION: for Allah has power over all things."
24:45 "Allah has created every animal from WATER: of them there are some that creep on their bellies; some that walk on two legs; and some that walk on four. Allah CREATES WHAT HE WILLS; for verily Allah is able to do all things."
25:54 "It is He Who has created man (/mankind) from WATER: then has He established relationship of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things)."


3.59 "The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was."

If Jesus was created by "Be" to womb of her mother, then could be that Adam had mother (from earlier "human"-species/other planet)? These words combined with parts saying that man was created from both "WATER" (25:54, through evolution starting from water, also animals are created from water in 24:45) and "GROUND" of the earth (23:12, through that all we are has grown from what we eat, that has its origin in the ground even through animals eating from there, even our/other animals sperm), will tell about evolution, how Allah created us, otherwise it would contradict each others (water/clay/womb?) and science. This is not how early scholars fit these parts together, and this theory will be refused by many, but while Muslims gave the utmost respect for those individuals, we do not consider them to be free from error. They were human beings and did not have the scientific knowledge to understand the Quran correctly and so used whatever theories were around at that time to interpret the Quran. Now that we know they were wrong, we can safely reject their interpretations and use the scientific knowledge at our disposal to interpret the Quran. Actually they were not wrong as according to hadith they said that Allah "shaped with His hands" humans from BOTH water and ground, as we truly have been shaped from fish to reptile, then from four legs to two legs, etc. The Quran’s claim to being a perfect revelation is not in the least affected by imperfect interpretations of it by mortal human beings, varying different times. Once even sun was thought to travel around earth, but now we know that sun travels around centrum of our galaxy, from where this "travelling/swimming" in Koran is. We also have to remember that when in hadits or in Koran is said that Allah "shaped" us from these earlier mentioned elements, it can not be taken too literally as many other parts in Koran neither (which was understood by everyone in those times even), but as describing creation powers of Allah, as "sent down water from the skyes" hints for the clouds (tools for Allah´s actions), not into space.

Onko evoluutio tuottanut myös muita ihmisen kaltaisia lajeja, ja tuleeko se tuottamaan maapallolle kun ihminen häviää?

4:133 "If it were His will, He could destroy you, o mankind, and create another race; for He hath power this to do."
17:99 "See they not that Allah, Who created the heavens and the Earth, has power to create the like of them? And He has decreed for them an appointed term, whereof there is no doubt. But the unjust refuse but disbelief."

According to Islam humans are not "image of God" like Bible teaches us. In the beginning (1:2) Koran says "Praise be to Allah, the cherisher and sustainer of the WORLDS". In Koran Allah has created us and "(other) things of which you have no knowledge" (16:8). Humans are not said to be created first, before us Allah created "Jinns", which sound like other species in space:

72:6-12 "(Jinns said:) ´True, there were persons among mankind who took shelter with persons among the jinns, but they increased them into further error. And they (came to) think as ye thought, that Allah would not raise up any one (to judgement). And we pried into the (secrets of) heaven (/we have sought to reach the heaven); but we found it filled with stern guards and flaming fires. We used, indeed, to sit there in stations, to (steal) a hearing; but any who listens now will find a flaming fire watching him in ambush. And we understand not whether evil is intended to THOSE ON EARTH, on whether their Lord (really) intends to guide them to right conduct. There are among us some that are righteous, and some the contrary: we follow divergent paths. But we think that we can by no means frustrate Allah throughout the earth, not can we ESCAPE Him BY FLIGHT.` "

Jinns are told to be created from "fire without smoke" before humans. When you think where fire does not have any smoke, it is in space without any oxygen. There is huge "torches" (of Koran), stars that are in constant state of burning and fire. When first stars exploided, all material for planets and even for us were born, so would not any possible alien-species be also from the stars? Allah said He created everything living from water, so Jinns clearly have experienced same kind of evolution as we have, beginning from water (as material for the planet came from the stars, “fire without smoke”). Jinns have been traditionally understanded as "spirits" or "ghosts", but from their descriptioning we have a hint from other more developed civilizations, which have for example capability to fly, to travel with developed ways (even among us unnoticed, f.ex. invisible or as a human). Jinns are even told to have been sitting on borders of heaven seeking way to get ("hear"=search for information) pass it, but noticed that it can not be done. So does Jinns mean aliens, both the spirits and alien-creatures, or are spirits in fact alien-creatures? According to Koran satan (Iblis) was originally a "Jinn", who was promoted to an angel (and began rebellious, knowledge brings responsibility), even that points to a very long life and developement with an invidual/species that finally got "promoted" clearly above his own level in "mega-evolution".

14:19-20 "Do you not see that Allah has created the heavens and the earth with truth? If He wills, He can remove you and bring (in your place) a new creation! And for Allah that is not hard or difficult."
42:29 "And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the living creatures He has scattered through them: And He has power to gather them (heavens & earth / creatures) together when He wills."

We are young species, and with all probability there is lot more older species (intelligent creatures) than us, eventhough habitable planets would be even more rare than we think, it is VERY BIG space. These creatures also act (knowingly/unknowingly/accidentally) according to will of Allah (even used as tools or instruments by Him), that has been defined when the rules of nature have been decided and created. Rules of nature by Allah dictate also everything happening here, even us, because it has made us what we are. And Allah can also put humans and other species to meet when He wills.

37:11 "Just ask their opinion: are they the more difficult to create, or the (other) beings We have created? Them have We created out of a sticky clay!"

This ayat shows that we really are basicly normal animals, we even share 98% of our genes with simpansies. So if simps were easy to create, so are we.



55:33 "O ye assembly of jinns and men! If it be ye can pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, pass ye! Not without authority (/permission) shall ye be able to pass!"


(Nämä kaikki kohdat on poimittu tästä aikaisemmasta kirjoituksestani)

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