Jokeripokeri kirjoittaa:
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=1000000000000003&conference=1000000000000010&posting=22000000005510196
"Sunna = Profeetta Muhammad oli monelle ihmiselle malli-ihminen, eli nykyään käytetään samaa tarkoittaisi idoli.Hänen ystävällinen käyttäytymisensä oli monille esimerkki hyvästä käytöksestä ja sitä se on edelleen.Ihmiset vain haluaisivat toimia toisilleen ystävällisesti ja hyvin yleensäkkin yrittäessään toimia kuin hän.
Sunnat eivät siis ole pakollisia,ja niitä noudatetaan ihmisten parhaiden osaamisten mukaan. "
===================================
Jaaha. Tässä on esimerkkejä Muhammadin "hyvästä" käytöksestä. Lähteet ovat sunnasta, koraanin jälkeen tärkeimmästä islamin lain lähteestä. Tätä siis muslimien on tulee noudattaa parhaan osaamisensa mukaan:
TERRORISMI:
Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
VÄKIVALTA, VAPAUDENRIISTO, VARKAUS, RAISKAUS
Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
LAPSIINSEKAANTUMINEN:
Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old.” Given a choice, I believe most people would prefer to get their spiritual inspiration from someone who wasn’t a sexual predator.
PAHANTAHTOISUUS:
Bukhari:V5B59N297 “The Prophet faced the Ka’aba and invoked evil on the Quraysh people.”
SOTIMINEN:
Tabari IX:115 “The military expeditions (Ghazawat) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven.” Tabari IX:118 “The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight.”
"PYHÄ" SOTIMINEN:
Bukhari:V4B52N196 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.”’”
Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.’”
MURHAAMINEN:
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Tabari VIII:181 “The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim.”
KIDUTUS:
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
SOTAROSVOUS:
Bukhari:V5B59N537 “Allah’s Apostle divided the war booty with the ratio of two shares for the horse and one-share for the foot soldier.”
VAINOHARHAISUUS SKEPTISIÄ MUSLIMIVELJIÄ KOHTAAN:
Qur’an 4:137 “Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe and reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor guide them. To the Hypocrites give the glad tidings that there is for them a grievous penalty, a painful doom.”
Bukhari:V4B52N147 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A man may seem as if he were practicing the deeds of Paradise while in fact he is from the people of Hell.’”
TAIPUVAISUUS PETTÄMISEEN:
Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”
SUVAITSEMATTOMUUS:
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”
SUURUUDENHULLUUS:
BukhariV7B63N1891 “Indeed in the Apostle of Allah you have a good example to follow.”
Bukhari:V9B92N384 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Whoever obeys me will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys me will not enter it.’”
SAATANANPALVONTA:
Bukhari:V6B60N475 “Allah’s Apostle became sick and could not offer his prayer. A lady came and said, ‘Muhammad! I think that your Satan has forsaken you, for I have not seen him with you for two or three nights!’ On that Allah revealed: ‘By the night when it darkens, your Lord has neither forsaken you, nor hated you.’” [93:1]
EPÄILYTTÄVÄ MORAALI:
Qur’an 8:69 “So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.”
Ishaq:466 “The Apostle [taking first dibs] chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhanah. She remained with him until she died, in his power.”
RASISMI:
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Ishaq:481 “The Apostle slew them in their own town. With our troops he surrounded their homes. We shouted out cries in the heat of battle. The Jews were given the Scripture and wasted it. Being blind, [the illiterate man said] they strayed from the Torah. You Jews disbelieved the Qur’an and yet you have tasted the confirmation of what it said. May Allah make our raid on them immortal. May fire burn in their quarter. They will no longer ruin our lands. You [Jews] have no place here, so be off!”
Bukhari:V5B59N727 “When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians.’”
Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.’”
NAISTEN ALISTAMINEN:
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”
Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
OLIKO MUHAMMAD LAINKAAN JÄRJISSÄÄN?
Bukhari:V1B4N156 “The Prophet said, ‘Whenever anyone makes water he should not hold his penis or clean his private parts with his right hand. While drinking, one should not breathe in the utensil.’”
Bukhari:V4B54N52 “The Prophet said, ‘Kill the snake with two white lines on its back, for it blinds the onlooker and causes abortion.’”
Bukhari:V9B87N115 “If you spit on the left side of your bed the bad dream will not harm you.”
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=1000000000000003&conference=1000000000000010&posting=22000000005510196
"Sunna = Profeetta Muhammad oli monelle ihmiselle malli-ihminen, eli nykyään käytetään samaa tarkoittaisi idoli.Hänen ystävällinen käyttäytymisensä oli monille esimerkki hyvästä käytöksestä ja sitä se on edelleen.Ihmiset vain haluaisivat toimia toisilleen ystävällisesti ja hyvin yleensäkkin yrittäessään toimia kuin hän.
Sunnat eivät siis ole pakollisia,ja niitä noudatetaan ihmisten parhaiden osaamisten mukaan. "
===================================
Jaaha. Tässä on esimerkkejä Muhammadin "hyvästä" käytöksestä. Lähteet ovat sunnasta, koraanin jälkeen tärkeimmästä islamin lain lähteestä. Tätä siis muslimien on tulee noudattaa parhaan osaamisensa mukaan:
TERRORISMI:
Bukhari:V4B52N220 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been made victorious with terror.’”
VÄKIVALTA, VAPAUDENRIISTO, VARKAUS, RAISKAUS
Tabari VIII:116/Ishaq:511 “So Muhammad began seizing their herds and their property bit by bit. He conquered home by home. The Messenger took some people captive, including Safiyah and her two cousins. The Prophet chose Safiyah for himself.”
LAPSIINSEKAANTUMINEN:
Tabari IX:131 “My mother came to me while I was being swung on a swing between two branches and got me down. My nurse took over and wiped my face with some water and started leading me. When I was at the door she stopped so I could catch my breath. I was brought in while Muhammad was sitting on a bed in our house. My mother made me sit on his lap. The other men and women got up and left. The Prophet consummated his marriage with me in my house when I was nine years old.” Given a choice, I believe most people would prefer to get their spiritual inspiration from someone who wasn’t a sexual predator.
PAHANTAHTOISUUS:
Bukhari:V5B59N297 “The Prophet faced the Ka’aba and invoked evil on the Quraysh people.”
SOTIMINEN:
Tabari IX:115 “The military expeditions (Ghazawat) in which the Messenger personally participated were twenty-six. Some say there were twenty-seven.” Tabari IX:118 “The armies and raiding parties sent by the Messenger of Allah between the time he came to Medina and his death (ten years) was forty-eight.”
"PYHÄ" SOTIMINEN:
Bukhari:V4B52N196 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.”’”
Bukhari:V1B2N25 “Allah’s Apostle was asked, ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and His Apostle Muhammad.’ The questioner then asked, ‘What is the next best in goodness?’ He replied, ‘To participate in Jihad, religious fighting in Allah's Cause.’”
MURHAAMINEN:
Tabari IX:69 “Killing disbelievers is a small matter to us.”
Bukhari:V5B59N512 “The Prophet had their men killed, their woman and children taken captive.”
Tabari VIII:181 “The Messenger ordered six men and four women to be assassinated. One of these women was Hind, who swore allegiance and became a Muslim.”
KIDUTUS:
Tabari VIII:122/Ishaq:515 “The Prophet gave orders concerning Kinanah to Zubayr, saying, ‘Torture him until you root out and extract what he has. So Zubayr kindled a fire on Kinanah’s chest, twirling it with his firestick until Kinanah was near death. Then the Messenger gave him to Maslamah, who beheaded him.”
SOTAROSVOUS:
Bukhari:V5B59N537 “Allah’s Apostle divided the war booty with the ratio of two shares for the horse and one-share for the foot soldier.”
VAINOHARHAISUUS SKEPTISIÄ MUSLIMIVELJIÄ KOHTAAN:
Qur’an 4:137 “Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe and reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief, Allah will never pardon them, nor guide them. To the Hypocrites give the glad tidings that there is for them a grievous penalty, a painful doom.”
Bukhari:V4B52N147 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘A man may seem as if he were practicing the deeds of Paradise while in fact he is from the people of Hell.’”
TAIPUVAISUUS PETTÄMISEEN:
Bukhari:V4B52N268 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘War is deceit.’”
Qur’an 9:3 “Allah and His Messenger dissolve obligations.”
Bukhari:V7B67N427 “The Prophet said, ‘If I take an oath and later find something else better than that, then I do what is better and expiate my oath.’”
SUVAITSEMATTOMUUS:
Qur’an 8:59 “The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them.”
SUURUUDENHULLUUS:
BukhariV7B63N1891 “Indeed in the Apostle of Allah you have a good example to follow.”
Bukhari:V9B92N384 “Allah’s Apostle said, ‘Whoever obeys me will enter Paradise, and whoever disobeys me will not enter it.’”
SAATANANPALVONTA:
Bukhari:V6B60N475 “Allah’s Apostle became sick and could not offer his prayer. A lady came and said, ‘Muhammad! I think that your Satan has forsaken you, for I have not seen him with you for two or three nights!’ On that Allah revealed: ‘By the night when it darkens, your Lord has neither forsaken you, nor hated you.’” [93:1]
EPÄILYTTÄVÄ MORAALI:
Qur’an 8:69 “So enjoy what you took as booty; the spoils are lawful and good.”
Ishaq:466 “The Apostle [taking first dibs] chose one of the Jewish women for himself. Her name was Rayhanah. She remained with him until she died, in his power.”
RASISMI:
Bukhari:V1B1N6 “Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country.”
Ishaq:481 “The Apostle slew them in their own town. With our troops he surrounded their homes. We shouted out cries in the heat of battle. The Jews were given the Scripture and wasted it. Being blind, [the illiterate man said] they strayed from the Torah. You Jews disbelieved the Qur’an and yet you have tasted the confirmation of what it said. May Allah make our raid on them immortal. May fire burn in their quarter. They will no longer ruin our lands. You [Jews] have no place here, so be off!”
Bukhari:V5B59N727 “When Allah’s Apostle became seriously sick, he started covering his face with a woolen sheet. When he felt short of breath, he removed it, and said, ‘That is so! Allah’s curse be on Jews and Christians.’”
Ishaq:374 “The black troops and slaves of the Meccans cried out and the Muslims replied, ‘Allah destroy your sight, you impious rascals.’”
NAISTEN ALISTAMINEN:
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”
Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”
OLIKO MUHAMMAD LAINKAAN JÄRJISSÄÄN?
Bukhari:V1B4N156 “The Prophet said, ‘Whenever anyone makes water he should not hold his penis or clean his private parts with his right hand. While drinking, one should not breathe in the utensil.’”
Bukhari:V4B54N52 “The Prophet said, ‘Kill the snake with two white lines on its back, for it blinds the onlooker and causes abortion.’”
Bukhari:V9B87N115 “If you spit on the left side of your bed the bad dream will not harm you.”
Vastaukset 22
Vanhimmat
Asiaakin saisi olla - eikä jatkuvia sitaatteja sellaisista Koraanin kohdista tai haditheista, jotka Muhammad asiaan tai taustoihin perehtymättä katsoo koomisiksi ja joita hän haluaa irvailla. Muuten koko juttu jää tosiaankin varsin lapselliseksi yritykseksi mollata ja kiusata niitä, joille Koraani ja hadithit ovat uskonnollisen vakaumuksen vuoksi tärkeitä. Kuka aikuinen tällaista leikittelyä viitsisi vakavasti tarkastella?
Täällä et voi leikkiä isäntää, sana on vapaa.
Kun nuo lainaukset ovat oikeita, ne on syytä panna esille. Kyllä ne kelpaa todisteena aivan sellaisenaan. Niissä on kaikissa esitetty jokin erillinen asia.
Olisi ehdottomasti väärin salata totuus vain sen takia, että joku siitä loukkaantuu. Totuus pitää tulla esiin. Islam on paljastettu täällä ja tullaan yhä paljastamaan. Sitä et sinä voi estää.
Jos näkee Kopraanissa ja muissa "pyhissä" kirjoituksissa tuollaisia mielettömyksiä niin on kaksi mahdollisuutta, tehdä älyllinen itsemurha ja hyväksyä nuo ristiriitaisuudet ym. kummallisuudet ja yrittää selittää ne parhain päin.
Jos taas uskoo mitä silmillään näkee, niin ei voi lakata kummastelemasta "profeetta" Muhammedin "pyhyyden" laatua. Ja jos haluaa jakaa hämmästelynsä muiden hämmästelijöiden kanssa, niin netti on ihan oiva paikka siihen
hui hai oikein ymmärrä, ettei ole pikku hui hain asia arvostella hänelle vierasta uskontoa?
Oli omaa analyysia tai ei, nuo kohdat edelleenkin ovat tosia. Ja noita ei kyllä taida taustoillakaan voida selittää, ainakaan järkevästi, ja etenkään kaikkia.
Toki uskontoja saa arvostella. Etenkin kun on tietoakin asiasta jonkun verran.
Sopii kumota nuo asiat sikäli kun niitä voi kumota. Muuten tuo höpinäsi on turhahkoa.
Herättää suurta hilpeyttä, tosin olisi tarjolla sinulle nimimerkkisi mukaista työtä: Isäntänä sikalassa, jossa suorittaisit emakoiden keinosiemennyksen. Työsuhdenetuna saisit jouluna kinkun kotiin ja muutoinkin avustaessasi teurastajaa, voisit siunata koraanin lukuja mukaellen viimeiselle matkalleen joutuvia sikoja.
Hämeen-Anttila kirjoittaa: "Profeetta ei eläessään ollut toiminut yksinomaan senhetkisen tilanteen mukaan vaan pitäen samalla silmällä myös tulevaisuutta. Profeetan elämän yksityiskohdat oli tarkoitettu islamin yhteisön ikuisen jäljittelyn kohteeksi." (S. 27, Islamin käsikirja)
Ainoastaan jonkun mullahin juoksupoika ja onneton siinäkin.
voit väittää noiden kohtien olevan tosia, kun et ilmeisesti itsekään ole muslimi? Eiköhän olisi kaikille parempi jos pikku Cuthalukin palaisi vielä koulun penkille muutamaksi vuodeksi ja aukaisisi vasta sitten suunsa?
Sinun nimimerkkisi vaikuttaa yhtä lapselliselta kuin juttusi.
Ikuiseksi suunniteltu on pettänyt, kun Muhammedin esimerkkiä seuraamalla nykyään joutuisi vankilaan. Islam on myös selvästi rasistinen oppi, huonoihin tapoihin yllyttävä ja rikollisiin tekoihin kehottava. Eikö tämä todista jotain sen opin suunnittelijasta? Se ei voinut olla Jumala, koska Jumala ei voi erehtyä niin täydellisesti.
Aabraham luuraa uuden nimimerkin takana. Ompa ovelaa, kun esiintyy isäntänä. Ei me sitä millään arvattaisi, ei varmasti niin.
sanoa mitä Jumala voi tehdä ja mitä ei?
Islamin uskonnon erehdykset on tulleet nykyaikana selväksi kaikille jotka haluavat nähdä.
Kristinusko ei ole noin erehtynyt.
Mitä nimimerkkini tarkoittaa. Vai ei muslimia työnteko kiinosta? Sosiaalituilla vaan elelään.
Teksti tuntuu kovin tutulta.
Tuota nimimerkkiä käyttäessä ei voi parhaalla tahdollakaan olettaa, että yli 5% ihmisistä tietäisi mitä se oikeasti tarkoittaa, vaikka se raamatussa kerrotaan erittäin perusteellisen selvästi. Jotkut ei vaan osaa.
Oli se keisari Nero kyllä aika kovis...
Miten niin vierasta uskontoa?
http://keskustelu.suomi24.fi/show.fcgi?category=1000000000000003&conference=1000000000000010&posting=22000000005298132
Tabari ei ole yleisesti hyväksytty lähde.
Vetoaminen "yleisesti hyväksyttyyn" ei päde islamin tapauksessa: ei ole "yhtä islamia" aivan kuten ei ole yhtä kristinuskoakaan. Perusvirhe, sorry.
Muslimit tappavat toisiaankin pelkästään siksi, että nämä sattuvat kannattamaan toista suuntausta.