Minua on kauan ihmetyttänyt suomalaisten käännynnäisten itsestään käyttämä kuvaus, "islamiin palannut".
Voisiko joku uskova selittää, miten voi palata johonkin, missä ei ole koskaan ollut?
Islamoppineiden mukaan me kaikki synnymme samanlaisina, ja on kasvatuksesta ja kokemuksesta kiinni, mikä uskontomme aikuisena on, joten kukaan ei islamin oppineiden mukaan voi olla syntynyt muslimiksi.
Voisiko joku uskova selittää, miten voi palata johonkin, missä ei ole koskaan ollut?
Islamoppineiden mukaan me kaikki synnymme samanlaisina, ja on kasvatuksesta ja kokemuksesta kiinni, mikä uskontomme aikuisena on, joten kukaan ei islamin oppineiden mukaan voi olla syntynyt muslimiksi.
Vastaukset 9
Vanhimmat
Book 033, Number 6425:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No child is born but upon Fitra. He then said. Recite: The nature made by Allah in which He created man, there is no altering of Allah's nature; that is the right religion."
Book 033, Number 6426:
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: No babe is born but upon Fitra. It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist. A person said: Allah's Messenger, what is your opinion if they were to die before that (before reaching the age of adolescence when they can distinguish between right and wrong)? He said: It is Allah alone Who knows what they would be doing.
Nuo edelliset olivat Muslimin haditheja ja tämä seuraava on Bukharin.
"SAHIH BUKHARI, BOOK 87: Interpretation of Dreams Volume 9, Book 87, Number 171:
Narrated Samura bin Jundub:
Allah's Apostle very often used to ask his companions, "Did anyone of you see a dream?" So dreams would be narrated to him by those whom Allah wished to tell. One morning the Prophet said, "Last night two persons came to me (in a dream) and woke me up and said to me, 'Proceed!' I set out with them and we came across a man Lying down, and behold, another man was standing over his head, holding a big rock. Behold, he was throwing the rock at the man's head, injuring it. The rock rolled away and the thrower followed it and took it back. By the time he reached the man, his head returned to the normal state. The thrower then did the same as he had done before. I said to my two companions, 'Subhan Allah! Who are these two persons?' They said, 'Proceed!' So we proceeded and came to a man Lying flat on his back and another man standing over his head with an iron hook, and behold, he would put the hook in one side of the man's mouth and tear off that side of his face to the back (of the neck) and similarly tear his nose from front to back and his eye from front to back. Then he turned to the other side of the man's face and did just as he had done with the other side. He hardly completed this side when the other side returned to its normal state. Then he returned to it to repeat what he had done before. I said to my two companions, 'Subhan Allah! Who are these two persons?' They said to me, 'Proceed!' So we proceeded and came across something like a Tannur (a kind of baking oven, a pit usually clay-lined for baking bread)." I think the Prophet said, "In that oven t here was much noise and voices." The Prophet added, "We looked into it and found naked men and women, and behold, a flame of fire was reaching to them from underneath, and when it reached them, they cried loudly. I asked them, 'Who are these?' They said to me, 'Proceed!' And so we proceeded and came across a river." I think he said, ".... red like blood." The Prophet added, "And behold, in the river there was a man swimming, and on the bank there was a man who had collected many stones. Behold. while the other man was swimming, he went near him. The former opened his mouth and the latter (on the bank) threw a stone into his mouth whereupon he went swimming again. He returned and every time the performance was repeated, I asked my two companions, 'Who are these (two) persons?' They replied, 'Proceed! Proceed!' And we proceeded till we came to a man with a repulsive appearance, the most repulsive appearance, you ever saw a man having! Beside him there was a fire and he was kindling it and running around it. I asked my companions, 'Who is this (man)?' They said to me, 'Proceed! Proceed!' So we proceeded till we reached a garden of deep green dense vegetation, having all sorts of spring colors. In the midst of the garden there was a very tall man and I could hardly see his head because of his great height, and around him there were children in such a large number as I have never seen. I said to my companions, 'Who is this?' They replied, 'Proceed! Proceed!' So we proceeded till we came to a majestic huge garden, greater and better than I have ever seen! My two companions said to me, 'Go up and I went up' The Prophet added, "So we ascended till we reached a city built of gold and silver bricks and we went to its gate and asked (the gatekeeper) to open the gate, and it was opened and we entered the city and found in it, men with one side of their bodies as handsome as the handsomest person you have ever seen, and the other side as ugly as the ugliest person you have ever seen. My two companions ordered those men to throw themselves into the river. Behold, there was a river flowing across (the city), and its water was like milk in whiteness. Those men went and threw themselves in it and then returned to us after the ugliness (of their bodies) had disappeared and they became in the best shape." The Prophet further added, "My two companions (angels) said to me, 'This place is the Eden Paradise, and that is your place.' I raised up my sight, and behold, there I saw a palace like a white cloud! My two companions said to me, 'That (palace) is your place.' I said to them, 'May Allah bless you both! Let me enter it.' They replied, 'As for now, you will not enter it, but you shall enter it (one day) I said to them, 'I have seen many wonders tonight. What does all that mean which I have seen?' They replied, 'We will inform you: As for the first man you came upon whose head was being injured with the rock, he is the symbol of the one who studies the Quran and then neither recites it nor acts on its orders, and sleeps, neglecting the enjoined prayers. As for the man you came upon whose sides of mouth, nostrils and eyes were torn off from front to back, he is the symbol of the man who goes out of his house in the morning and tells so many lies that it spreads all over the world. And those naked men and women whom you saw in a construction resembling an oven, they are the adulterers and the adulteresses;, and the man whom you saw swimming in the river and given a stone to swallow, is the eater of usury (Riba) and the bad looking man whom you saw near the fire kindling it and going round it, is Malik, the gatekeeper of Hell and the tall man whom you saw in the garden, is Abraham and the children around him are those children who die with Al-Fitra (the Islamic Faith)." The narrator added: Some Muslims asked the Prophet, "O Allah's Apostle! What about the children of pagans?" The Prophet replied, "And also the children of pagans." The Prophet added, "My two companions added, 'The men you saw half handsome and half ugly were those persons who had mixed an act that was good with another that was bad, but Allah forgave them.'" "
Tuo viimeinen pitkä hadith kyllä vastaa aika moneen sinun kysymyksistäsi. Eli tärkein yksityiskohta tähän aiheeseen liittyen lienee se, että jokainen lapsi syntyy fitraan, ja mikäli hän kuolee ennen sen kummempaa uskonnollista opetusta, hän pääsee suoraan paratiisiin Aabrahamin kanssa. Myös pakanoiden lapset menevät suoraan paratiisiin, sillä hekin ovat syntyneet puhtaina fitrassa.
Häditit ovat, kuten jo islamoppaan forumilla todettiin, ukkojen pöpinöitä. Häditejä löytyy joka lähtöön, ja jokaiselle sopiva oma. Minä olen kiinnostunut siitä, mitä Koraani sanoo asiassa, en siitä, mitä joku parisataa vuotta Muhammadin kuoleman jälkeen kirjoittanut perisalainen käännynnäinen on kansanperinteestä muistiin kirjoittanut.
ihailusta, jajh.
Huomaan ilokseni, että olet todella perehtynyt islamiin että sinulla on munaa puhua asioista niin kuin ne ovat.
Tahakin on näköjään vikisemässä jossain nurkassa.
Lutkuttaa täysin avuttomana peukaloaan.
Aabraham, tuo lipeväkielinen kaappimuslimi, kyttää kirjoituksiasi ja yrittää löytää reikiä. Watch him, and watch him close.
Pitäisiköhän perustaa ihan uusi keskustelu siitä, pitääkö muslimin uskoa haditheihin vai ei...
Islamoppaan foorumia en koskaan seurannut mitenkään aktiivisesti, joten olen valitettavasti missannut kaikki ne vakuuttavat ja aidot väärentämättömät ja huolella luetut todisteet hadithien epäluotettavuudesta. Oletan, että sinulla on erittäin hyvä syy esittää tuo väite. Oletan myös, että voit perustella sen. Mikäli ryhdyt perustelemaan sitä, niin ehdotankin uuden keskustelun avaamista sen kunniaksi.
>Tahakin on näköjään vikisemässä jossain nurkassa.
Lutkuttaa täysin avuttomana peukaloaan.
Äläs sorki lepäävää leijonaa! ;) Vai epäiletkö hänen jo tyhjentäneen lyhyiden kappaleiden aarrearkkunsa?
...minulla on tallessa osa siitä säikeestä, katson, jos sen saisi tänne "liimattua" (ei nyt mukana). Voimme sitten jatkaa siitä terroristin keskeyttämästä kohdasta. Voinet odottaa maanantaihin, mutta jos olen tilaisuudessa, yritän aiemmin. Ongelma on, että siinä oli arabiankielinen pätkä, enkä tiedä, tuleeko se tänne näkyviin. Toivokaamme parasta.
Kärsivällisyyttä! Ihan hienoa muuten, että edes joku on aidosti kiinnostunut.
Odotan suurella mielenkiinnolla maanantaihin. Tuo keskustelu kyllä varmaan kääntää tämänkin foorumin päälaelleen. Saas nähä mimmonen riita siitäkin syntyy. Yrittänyttä ei laitetan. Katotaan mitä porukka sanoo.
Salam Aleykum taas!
Tämä asia perustuu Koraaniin kohtaan 7:172. Mutta tätä pitänee sinulle vähän selittää, vai?
wa salam
veljesi Sheikh
Mikäs siinä. Mutta älä tee siitä jumalattoman pitkää juttua, jossa on viisi esimerkkihäditiä tms. turhaa. Yksi ja keskeinen riittää kussakin asiassa.
Odottelen, siitähän voi sitten saada hyvänkin keskustelunpohjan. Häditeistä mielipiteeni tietänet, joten laita Koraanin kohtia.