http://www.topix.net/forum/world/nato/TPCGSIR65QNGMT9GJ
Dane
Tallinn, Estonia Reply »
|Flag |#11 Feb 14, 2007
The whole thing about the bronze soldier was initiated by neo-Nazis of Estonia, and was as well as the erection last year of the two new SS soldiers memorials near Sinimäe in eastern Estonia, put up big on Nazi and SS homepages throughout the world. Those new SS memorials surely were erected under influence of Estonian neo-Nazis.
Otherwise actually, the ordinary Estonian does not care much about WWII or even the Soviet occupation. Independence actually was 16 years ago and the Soviet killings and deportations ended 50 years ago, so the average Estonian does not go around thinking about this at all.
And the reason why nobody does anything about the pompous Soviet memorial at Maarjamäe, is that it is part of the Tallinn silhouette, a landmark and a tourist attraction.
But what most Estonian agrees about is that it is good to suppress and to discriminate the Russian population. Most of Estonian does not see it as some kind of obscure revenge for Soviet occupation, it is that they are somewhat nationalists saying that Estonia is for Estonians only. Everybody knows and agrees that the Russians living there today had nothing to do with the occupation or the Soviet suppression.
And for 16 years now, the Russian population have been utterly discriminated and suppressed by the Estonian government, authorities and Estonian people in general. But now the EU are starting to interfere, now by granting the Russians of Estonia and Latvia the opportunity to travel within EU, and also talking about that Estonia should let the Russian language be a second language in Estonia as it is de-facto but not de-juris. Also Amnesty International recently published its big report about the discrimination of Russians in Estonia. So now Estonians sees that Russians are rising up a little, so they are looking for something else to irritate them with, and the Bronze Soldier somewhat came on the agenda, after neo-Nazis tried to demolish it, and young Russians turned out to protect it. Estonians then realised that this statue might mean something to the Russians, so perhaps we can offend them by taking it away, as the Estonians never ever cared about that statue before, but now it turned out to be a very good instrument for annoying the Russians. And populist politicians immediately grabbed the chance for getting some extra votes, and as the Russians are not allowed to vote, it was a godsend.
The whole situation about the bronze soldier is Estonian politicians acting extreme populistic and going the errand for the neo-Nazis, which surely exist in Estonia and also amongst the politicians leading Estonia, and here I do not talk about the silly skinheads, but this is a much more scary type of Nazis. They do not go around with swastikas or look any different that ordinary people. In the case of the Bronze Soldier situation it is most likely 1/3 Nazism and 2/3 “what can we do to annoy the Russian population” added with a small insignificant drop of anti-Sovietism.
So the very best thing would be to forget about it all. Leave the statue where it is and not talk more about it. However it has now gone all out of proportions, and prestige is involved now, and by no way must it ever look like the Russian people have “won”, so the statue sadly is doomed to be moved.
And the as the EU and human rights organisations press to normalise the situation for the Russian population of Estonia, more bizarre events will happen, as there must be found something new that Estonians then can annoy the Russians by doing. Somewhat childish behaviour this is, but as long as they are not killing each other it may be ok, but much better would of course be that everybody had equal rights and could live together without dispute.
Dane
Tallinn, Estonia Reply »
|Flag |#11 Feb 14, 2007
The whole thing about the bronze soldier was initiated by neo-Nazis of Estonia, and was as well as the erection last year of the two new SS soldiers memorials near Sinimäe in eastern Estonia, put up big on Nazi and SS homepages throughout the world. Those new SS memorials surely were erected under influence of Estonian neo-Nazis.
Otherwise actually, the ordinary Estonian does not care much about WWII or even the Soviet occupation. Independence actually was 16 years ago and the Soviet killings and deportations ended 50 years ago, so the average Estonian does not go around thinking about this at all.
And the reason why nobody does anything about the pompous Soviet memorial at Maarjamäe, is that it is part of the Tallinn silhouette, a landmark and a tourist attraction.
But what most Estonian agrees about is that it is good to suppress and to discriminate the Russian population. Most of Estonian does not see it as some kind of obscure revenge for Soviet occupation, it is that they are somewhat nationalists saying that Estonia is for Estonians only. Everybody knows and agrees that the Russians living there today had nothing to do with the occupation or the Soviet suppression.
And for 16 years now, the Russian population have been utterly discriminated and suppressed by the Estonian government, authorities and Estonian people in general. But now the EU are starting to interfere, now by granting the Russians of Estonia and Latvia the opportunity to travel within EU, and also talking about that Estonia should let the Russian language be a second language in Estonia as it is de-facto but not de-juris. Also Amnesty International recently published its big report about the discrimination of Russians in Estonia. So now Estonians sees that Russians are rising up a little, so they are looking for something else to irritate them with, and the Bronze Soldier somewhat came on the agenda, after neo-Nazis tried to demolish it, and young Russians turned out to protect it. Estonians then realised that this statue might mean something to the Russians, so perhaps we can offend them by taking it away, as the Estonians never ever cared about that statue before, but now it turned out to be a very good instrument for annoying the Russians. And populist politicians immediately grabbed the chance for getting some extra votes, and as the Russians are not allowed to vote, it was a godsend.
The whole situation about the bronze soldier is Estonian politicians acting extreme populistic and going the errand for the neo-Nazis, which surely exist in Estonia and also amongst the politicians leading Estonia, and here I do not talk about the silly skinheads, but this is a much more scary type of Nazis. They do not go around with swastikas or look any different that ordinary people. In the case of the Bronze Soldier situation it is most likely 1/3 Nazism and 2/3 “what can we do to annoy the Russian population” added with a small insignificant drop of anti-Sovietism.
So the very best thing would be to forget about it all. Leave the statue where it is and not talk more about it. However it has now gone all out of proportions, and prestige is involved now, and by no way must it ever look like the Russian people have “won”, so the statue sadly is doomed to be moved.
And the as the EU and human rights organisations press to normalise the situation for the Russian population of Estonia, more bizarre events will happen, as there must be found something new that Estonians then can annoy the Russians by doing. Somewhat childish behaviour this is, but as long as they are not killing each other it may be ok, but much better would of course be that everybody had equal rights and could live together without dispute.
Vastaukset 2
Vanhimmat
Russian Nazis: New Wave of Racist Attacks
Last week in the forest outside Moscow, a group of Russians dressed in camouflage and armed with fake AK-47 automatic weapons prepared for combat. Although these men may easily have been mistaken for paintballers, the secret military-style maneuvers that took place 70 miles southeast of Moscow bore a much more ominous nature.
The three-day event attracted around 50 ardent neo-Nazis, worshipers of Hitler who claim that the dark-skinned inhabitants of Russia must be killed. This ‘training camp’ was designed to train young men in combat techniques and extremist ideology. Those present at the gathering al claimed to have either supported or participated in the series of severe racist attacks, which has recently shaken Russia.
Participants were housed in tents under red and white flags of the National-socialist society with swastikas. They learned how to handle weapons using fake firearms, knives and the batons. In the evening the group gathered around a bonfire. Exchanging Nazi salutes they shouted pro-Hitler slogans and gave speeches about the "super-race" of ethnic Russians.
"We must kill all dark-skinned immigrants", explained a young man nicknamed Broadsword, rumored to be one of the most radical Moscow skinheads. Other neo-Nazis at this camp appeared to revere the 21-year old broadsword for the violent attacks he claims to have carried out on immigrants. Dressed in black bomber jacket, his head shaved, this unemployed building engineer’s hands are covered with deep knife cuts. Broadsword claims he obtained these wounds during a recent bloody struggle with an armed man from Tajikistan. He also claims to carry a 10 inch hunting knife with him at all times and brags that it converts immigrants "into porridge".
Recently broadsword launched his own neo-Nazi site, dedicated to Hitler, on which he publishes reports about attacks on immigrants. He claims that his call to violence has become so popular in Moscow that in the metro people even ask for his autograph. "We must kill not only the adults, but we must also get rid of their children”, Broadsword says. “When you exterminate cockroaches you don’t just kill the big ones, you suffocate the small ones as well ".
In the Second World War the Soviet Union lost about 20 million people. Russians are proud of their country’s great contribution towards the defeat of Hitler, and for this reason the views of extremists such as broadsword have, until recently, been brushed aside as rare exceptions. But such racist sentiments are becoming increasingly common and racist attacks are being carried out with tragic frequency. Recently, in a single month a record number of racially motivated murders were carried out, nine with a further 24 attacks, including the near-fatal stabbing of a nine-year old girl.
Data collected by "Owl", the non-government organization responsible for monitoring racial crimes, reveals that in the past year in Russia 28 racist murders were carried out. However, Amnesty International believes that the real total is considerably higher: the police deliberately conceal the seriousness of many racial crimes by classifying them as simple "hooliganism". Amnesty last week warned that racism in Russian cities "is getting out of control", and it attacked the Kremlin for failing to take on the racists.
President Vladimir Putin, who lost his older brother at a young age during the blockade of Leningrad, condemns racist actions. However experts complain that the Russian authorities are failing to combat racism. "Nobody wants to recognize, that the country which defeated fascism, is itself a nursery of fascists" said a spokeswoman from Owl Galina Kozhevnikova.
Despite the reporting of racist murders in the mass-media, the group of young people, including four girls, who gathered in the camp the last week, declared that the authorities have done nothing to break up their meetings. In fact according one of the participants, 40-year old programmer Dmitry Rumjantseva, quite the opposite is true; many militia officers share their beliefs.
Rumjantseva welcomed neo-Nazi supporters at a meeting with cries of ‘Sieg Heil!’ and gave a speech claiming that the neo-Nazis’ planned revolution would be supported by Russian state security forces. "To kill immigrants is a good thing, it is good for young skinheads to play in blood, it supports the fighting spirit, but it changes nothing,” Rumjantseva states.
Participants armed with replica automatic weapons were divided into two groups and attacked one another in order to study combat tactics. The groups were also taught how to fight with a knife, an instructor demonstrated how to deliver strikes to the neck and stomach of victim.
Two years ago a knife attack lead to death of the youngest neo-Nazi victim so far Khurshedy Sultanovoy. This nine year old girl was attacked on the outskirts of Saint Petersburg by a group of skinheads, shouting: "Russia for the Russians". They inflicted multiple knife injuries to the girl who later dies of her injuries. The killers were arrested, tried and found guilty, but only of hooliganism. They were sentenced to a maximum of five years imprisonment. "It’s unbelievable. In the opinion of the Russian authorities, the murder of my small daughter constitutes only hooliganism,” says 37-year old Yunus Sultanovoy, Khurshedy’s father. “They have given these murders the green light to continue to kill us, because we are another color. They did everything in order to protect the group of killers. It is because we are Tajik.”
Mark Franketti
But going against that logic, with survivors of the tragedy still alive, and the others turning over in their graves, violent, neo-Nazi behavior has surged in Russia. In the past few months alone, the dozens of neo-Nazi groups have attacked and KILLED 25 PEOPLE, wounding over 150 others, and for what reason you may ask? In most cases simply for belonging to some ethnic minority unacceptable by neo-Nazi standards. Though the statistics aren’t official, an estimated 50 thousand neo-Nazis are spread throughout Russia, publishing about 200 weekly newsletters to promote their extreme-right ideology. These activities have been fuel to the fire of racism, hate and radical nationalism in Russia today.