Vihreä oksa sattuu eniten...
Vihreä oksa
Niille, jotka saattavat huomata heidän koraanikäännösversionsa poikkeavan seuraavasta!
Useimmat kääntäjistä ovat tahallaan yrittäneet pehmentää Koraanin julmia säkeitä. Erityisesti Yusufali menee pitkälle taivuttaakseen sanojen merkitykset ja peittääkseen Koraanin raakuuden. Esimerkiksi hän kääntää säkeen 38:44 "Ota vihreä oksa ja piekse vaimoasi", "Ota pieni vihreä ruohonkorsi ja lyö sillä", mikä mitätöi pieksemisen tarkoituksen. Tarkoituksena oli rangaista, mutta nyt se kuulostaa kuin rakastelun esileikiltä. Kun Yusufali kääntää säkeen 4:34 "Lyökää vaimoanne", hän ei voi olla lisäämättä sanaa (kevyesti) sulkeisiin. Toiset kääntäjät eivät ole lisänneet sanaa kevyesti, eikä sellaista sanaa esiinny Koraanissa.
(by Ali Sina. Suom: Jake Waits)
*****
[Shakir 38:44] And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent m returning (to Allah).
[Yusufali 38:44] "And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith: and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!
[Pickthal 38:44] And (it was said unto him): Take in thine hand a branch and smite therewith, and break not thine oath. Lo! We found him steadfast, how excellent a slave! Lo! he was ever turning in repentance (to his Lord).
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 38:44] For fulfilment of his oath, Ayyub was directed by Allah to strike his wife one simple blow with a palm-branch having a hundred leaves.
*****
[Shakir 4:34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
[Yusufali 4:34] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
[Pickthal 4:34] Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 4:34]
In verse 228 of al-Baqarah Allah says that women also have rights as men have but men are a degree above women. In this verse it is again stated that men are the guardians of women as He has made the male sex excel over the female sex. This is the will of an all-wise and almighty Lord.
The equality before law should not be confused with the equality of the complex of subjective and original qualities. Even the messengers and prophets of Allah are not equal in status due to their innate and endowed essence. "We have made some of these messengers to excel others", says the almighty , Allah in verse 253 of al-Baqarah.
Qanitatun means devoted to Allah, therefore, a woman who obeys Allah must accept His command and acknowledge her duties she has to perform to please her husband who spends of his wealth to provide for her. She must also watch over his property and his interests, attend to his needs, and above all guard her chastity.
In case a perverse woman (wife) refuses to mend her ways (very common among the low-bred and ignorant women of easy virtue) then the husband can admonish her, and even stop sleeping with her, but if the corrective measures fail to refine her, he can take harsher steps to make her qanitatun (devoted and obedient to Allah).
To understand the true purport of this verse, it is essential to keep in mind verse 21 of al-Rum.
"Another of His signs is that He created out of you mates of your own kind so that you may find repose in them, and has instilled (ordained) love and kindness between you. Verily there are signs in this for those who reflect."
In many verses it has been ordained to, treat women with kindness and to speak to them gently.
The Holy Prophet said:
"Never beat Allah's handmaidens."
"The best of you is he who is kind to his wife."
There is not a single event of wife-beating or child-abuse in the lives of the Holy Prophet and his holy Ahl ul Bayt.
Fala tabghu alayhinna is a warning to the unscrupulous husbands not to seek an excuse for resorting to the conditional provision allowed to discipline the depraved women only.
*****
http://www.al-islam.org/quran/
Vihreä oksa
Niille, jotka saattavat huomata heidän koraanikäännösversionsa poikkeavan seuraavasta!
Useimmat kääntäjistä ovat tahallaan yrittäneet pehmentää Koraanin julmia säkeitä. Erityisesti Yusufali menee pitkälle taivuttaakseen sanojen merkitykset ja peittääkseen Koraanin raakuuden. Esimerkiksi hän kääntää säkeen 38:44 "Ota vihreä oksa ja piekse vaimoasi", "Ota pieni vihreä ruohonkorsi ja lyö sillä", mikä mitätöi pieksemisen tarkoituksen. Tarkoituksena oli rangaista, mutta nyt se kuulostaa kuin rakastelun esileikiltä. Kun Yusufali kääntää säkeen 4:34 "Lyökää vaimoanne", hän ei voi olla lisäämättä sanaa (kevyesti) sulkeisiin. Toiset kääntäjät eivät ole lisänneet sanaa kevyesti, eikä sellaista sanaa esiinny Koraanissa.
(by Ali Sina. Suom: Jake Waits)
*****
[Shakir 38:44] And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with It and do not break your oath; surely We found him patient; most excellent the servant! Surely he was frequent m returning (to Allah).
[Yusufali 38:44] "And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith: and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!
[Pickthal 38:44] And (it was said unto him): Take in thine hand a branch and smite therewith, and break not thine oath. Lo! We found him steadfast, how excellent a slave! Lo! he was ever turning in repentance (to his Lord).
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 38:44] For fulfilment of his oath, Ayyub was directed by Allah to strike his wife one simple blow with a palm-branch having a hundred leaves.
*****
[Shakir 4:34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
[Yusufali 4:34] Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
[Pickthal 4:34] Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 4:34]
In verse 228 of al-Baqarah Allah says that women also have rights as men have but men are a degree above women. In this verse it is again stated that men are the guardians of women as He has made the male sex excel over the female sex. This is the will of an all-wise and almighty Lord.
The equality before law should not be confused with the equality of the complex of subjective and original qualities. Even the messengers and prophets of Allah are not equal in status due to their innate and endowed essence. "We have made some of these messengers to excel others", says the almighty , Allah in verse 253 of al-Baqarah.
Qanitatun means devoted to Allah, therefore, a woman who obeys Allah must accept His command and acknowledge her duties she has to perform to please her husband who spends of his wealth to provide for her. She must also watch over his property and his interests, attend to his needs, and above all guard her chastity.
In case a perverse woman (wife) refuses to mend her ways (very common among the low-bred and ignorant women of easy virtue) then the husband can admonish her, and even stop sleeping with her, but if the corrective measures fail to refine her, he can take harsher steps to make her qanitatun (devoted and obedient to Allah).
To understand the true purport of this verse, it is essential to keep in mind verse 21 of al-Rum.
"Another of His signs is that He created out of you mates of your own kind so that you may find repose in them, and has instilled (ordained) love and kindness between you. Verily there are signs in this for those who reflect."
In many verses it has been ordained to, treat women with kindness and to speak to them gently.
The Holy Prophet said:
"Never beat Allah's handmaidens."
"The best of you is he who is kind to his wife."
There is not a single event of wife-beating or child-abuse in the lives of the Holy Prophet and his holy Ahl ul Bayt.
Fala tabghu alayhinna is a warning to the unscrupulous husbands not to seek an excuse for resorting to the conditional provision allowed to discipline the depraved women only.
*****
http://www.al-islam.org/quran/
Vastaukset 11
Vanhimmat
38:44 ei puhuta oksasta vaan ruohokimpusta (sirth)
Se on vitsakimppu,ei "ruohokimppu". (Mikä sellainen ´lyäntivälinen olisikaan?)
[Shakir 38:44] And take in your hand a _green_branch and beat her...
[Yusufali 38:44] "And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike therewith
[Pickthal 38:44] And (it was said unto him): Take in thine hand a _branch_ and smite therewith
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 38:44] For fulfilment of his oath, Ayyub was directed by Allah to strike his wife one simple blow with a _palm-branch_ having_ a _hundred _leaves.
ِﺭﺎَﺼْﺑَﺄْﻟﺍَﻭ ﻱِﺪْﻳَﺄْﻟﺍ ﻲِﻟْﻭُﺃ َﺏﻮُﻘْﻌَﻳَﻭ َﻕﺎَﺤْﺳِﺇَﻭ َﻢﻴِﻫﺍَﺮْﺑﺇ ﺎَﻧَﺩﺎَﺒِﻋ ْﺮُﻛْﺫﺍَﻭ {45}
ٌﺏﺍَّﻭَﺃ ُﻪَّﻧِﺇ ُﺪْﺒَﻌْﻟﺍ َﻢْﻌِﻧ ﺍًﺮِﺑﺎَﺻ ُﻩﺎَﻧْﺪَﺟَﻭ ﺎَّﻧِﺇ ْﺚَﻨْﺤَﺗ ﺎَﻟَﻭ ِﻪِّﺑ ﺏِﺮْﺿﺎَﻓ ﺎًﺜْﻐِﺿ َﻙِﺪَﻴِﺑ ْﺬُﺧَﻭ {44}
Jostain syystä arabiankielinen jakeen numero 44 kohdalla oli numero 45 (hämäystäkö?). Copy-paste ei varmaankaan onnistu kunnolla, joten arabiankielentaitoiset voivat tarkastaa täältä:
http://www.al-islam.org/quran/
Huomio, arabiankielentaitoiset!
Vihreä oksa vai ruohokimppu?
Jos puhut omasta käännöksestäni "ruohonkorsi", myönnän ilomielin, että sinun "ruohokimppusi" on vielä hassumpi kidutusväline.
Millä perusteella tässä jakeessa on kyse kiduttamisesta?
Luuletko, etten tarkistanut arabiankielisestä Koraanista?
> Millä perusteella tässä jakeessa on kyse kiduttamisesta?
Jos et muka tahdo ymmärtää sarkasmia, niin korjataan "rangaistusväline". Vai oletko edes samaa mieltä muslimioppineiden kanssa siitä, että kyseisessä jakeessa käsitellään rangaistusta naiselle?
>Luuletko, etten tarkistanut arabiankielisestä Koraanista?
En ole uhrannut ajatustakaan luulemiseen sinun tarkastuksiesi suhteen, mutta nyt kun otit asian puheeksi, niin oletko valmis vannomaan Allahin edessä, että kyseisessä jakeessa 38:44 puhutaan ruohokimpusta?
"scourge" on aika hyvä käännös; = ruoskia, piinata, piiskata jne.
täytyisi ilmeisesti Nashidalle todistaa, että ruoskiminen on kidutusta.
38:44
Esiintyykö jakeessa sana vihreä oksa, vitsakimppu vai ruohokimppu?
38:44 "And take in your hand a BUNDLE OF THIN GRASS and strike therewith, and break not your oath. Truly, We found him patient..."
Eli tässä puhutaan Jobista, jota Jumala käski näin, mikään yleinen käsky muslimeille tämä ei ole. Tämän (yhden arvostetuimman) käännöksen tekijöinä on Dr.Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali ja Dr.Muhammad Muhsin Khan, pitäisi olla muiden moskeijoissa tuntemieni muslimien mukaan kokonaisuudessaan hyvin lähellä arabian alkuperäistä muotoa.
Ehkä tajuat, jo sana "vihreä" kertoo jotain tästä "lyömäaseesta".
>>>Kun Yusufali kääntää säkeen 4:34 "Lyökää vaimoanne", hän ei voi olla lisäämättä sanaa (kevyesti) sulkeisiin. Toiset kääntäjät eivät ole lisänneet sanaa kevyesti, eikä sellaista sanaa esiinny Koraanissa.
(by Ali Sina. Suom: Jake Waits)
Jätkä kitisee minun arabiantaidoistani ja käskee tarkastaa eihe englannin kielestä. Voiko karimpi enää olla?
Mutta molemmat sentään osataan englantia, ja Koraani jota käytän on englannin kielinen!!! Käy sinäkin siellä Islam Q-A kysymässä asiasta äläkä kitise tietämättömänä täällä!