lääketieteellisiä tosiasioita homoudesta

Fags live filthy, unhealty, dangerous, unhappy,
and in many cases, violent lives.
MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES Of WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO.
On April 25, 2001, the CDC reported that "We are
seeing substantial increases in sexually
transmitted diseases among men who have sex with
men in multiple locations across this country."
(31, 32).
Fags are responsible for the "first sexually
transmitted outbreak of typhoid fever" in the
history of the United States. This disease is
caused by ingesting human feces (32).
More than 10% of fags in major U.S. urban areas
are infected with HIV. To this day, they still
make up more than 50% of reported AIDS cases in
the United States (30, 31).
Fags fellate almost 100% of their sexual contacts
and ingest semen from about half of those. Semen
contains virtually every germ carried in the
blood stream, so this is about equivalent to
ingesting raw human blood (6).
One study reports 70% of fags admitting to having
sex only one time with over 50% of their partners
(3).
One study reports that the average fag has
between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The
average heterosexual has 8 partners in a
lifetime.
Sperm readily penetrates the anal wall (which is
only one cell thick) and gains direct access to
the blood stream. This causes massive
immunological damage to the body's T- and B-cell
defensive systems (14).
50% of male syphilis is carried by fags as a
rectal infection and can enter through the
urethra of another fag during anal sex (7).
Around 67-80% of fags lick and/or insert their
tongues into the anuses of their partners
(called "rimming", anilingus, fecal sex, etc.)
and ingest biologically significant amounts of
feces (7), which is the chief cause of hepatitis
and parasitic infections among fags (8). This
practice is called the "prime taste treat in sex"
in the bestseller The Joy of Gay Sex.
33% of fags admit to fisting (inserting the hand,
sometimes part of the arm, into the rectum of his
partner) (7).
Urinating on each other ("golden showers") and
torture has doubled among fags since the 1940s,
and fisting has increased astronomically (7).
17% of fags eat and/or rub the feces of their
partners on themselves (4).
12% of fags give/receive enemas as part of sexual
pleasure (4).
In one study, the average fag fellated somewhere
between 20 and 106 men, swallowed 50 seminal
discharges, had 72 penile penetrations of the
anus, and ingested feces of 23 different men
EVERY YEAR (6).
Many fag sexual encounters occur while drunk,
high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
Many fags don't pay heed to warnings of their
lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was
quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to
sexual behavior" (16).
Activities of fags involve rimming (anilingus),
golden showers, fisting, and using "toys" (21).
Fags got homosexuality removed from the list of
mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the
annual American Psychiatric Association (APA)
conference on successive years. "Guerrilla
theater tactics and more straight-forward
shouting matches characterized their presence"
(2). Since homosexuality has been removed from
the APA list of mental illnesses, so has
pedophilia (except when the adult
feels "subjective distress") (27).
Fags account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60%
of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital
admissions (other than for STDs) in the United
States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the
population.
Fags live unhealthy lifestyles, and have
historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis,
gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome"
(which attacks the intestinal tract),
tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).
73% of psychiatrists say fags are less happy than
the average person, and of those psychiatrists,
70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social
stigmatization (13).
25-33% of fags and dykes are alcoholics (11).
Of fags questioned in one study, 43% admitted to
500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted
to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these
people, 79% said that half of those partners were
total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts
were one night stands (or, as one fag admits in
the film "The Castro," one minute stands) (3).
Also, it is a favorite past-time of many fags to
go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex. See
www.cruisingforsex.com (NOTE: this site may
contain pornographic images - please don't go to
it if you are under age or don't want to see this
type of material. This site is referenced only
for illustrative purposes.)
78% of fags are affected by STDs (20).
Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New
York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals
account for half the murders in large cities"
(10).
Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police
says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los
Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).
50% of suicides can be attributed to fags (10).
Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist,
says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy
and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best,
will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the
sexually normal person" (10). For other
psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is
wrong, please see National Association for
Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of
each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous
lifestyle of fags, medical insurance rates have
been skyrocketing for all of us(10).
One study reports that 90% of fags have engaged
in anal sex, and 66% engage in anal sex regularly
(6).
Fags were responsible for spreading AIDS in the
United States, and then raised up violent groups
like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it.
Even today, fags account for well over 50% of the
AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a
large number considering that they account for
only 1-2% of the population.
Fags account for a disproportionate number of
hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in
Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42%
in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).
10% of fags admit to eating feces and/or drinking
contaminated enema water (8).
29% of fags engage in urine sex ("golden
showers") (8).
37% of fags engage in sadomasochism, which
accounts for many accidental deaths. In San
Francisco, classes were held to teach fags how to
not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).
In large cities, hospitals are often called on to
remove objects from the rectums of fags.
Sometimes, the fags do so much damage that they
have to wear colostomy bags for the rest of their
lives (8).
41% of fags say they have had sex with strangers
in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex
with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these
encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs
(8).
Depending on the city, 39-59% of fags are
infected with intestinal parasites like worms,
flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy
third world countries (8).
The median age of death of fags is 42 (only 9%
live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause
of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a
married heterosexual man is 75 (8).
The median age of death of dykes is 45 (only 24%
live past age 65). The median age of death of a
married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
Fags are 100 times more likely to be murdered
(usually by another fag) than the average person,
25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19
times more likely to die in a traffic accident
(8).
21% of dykes die of murder, suicide or traffic
accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher
than the number of white heterosexual females
aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).
50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer
bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., fags
beating up other fags) (18).
About 50% of the women on death row are dykes
(12).
Fags prey on children.
"Homosexuals in UK propose teaching about anal
sex to 4-year-olds"
33% of fags ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).
There is a notable fag group, consisting of
thousands of members, known as the North American
Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). (Note:
this web site is sometimes down). This is a child
molesting fag group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8
BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen
marching in most major fag parades across the
United States.
Fags commit more than 33% of all reported child
molestations in the United States, which,
assuming fags make up 2% of the population, means
that 1 in 20 fags is a child molestor, while 1 in
490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).
73% of all fags have had sex with boys under 19
years of age (9).
Many fags admit that they are pedophiles: "The
love between men and boys is at the foundation of
homosexuality" (22).
Because fags can't reproduce naturally, they
resort to recruiting children. Fags can be heard
chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT,
RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their fag parades. A group
called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on
trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE
RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other fags
aren't as overt about this, but rather try to
infiltrate society and get into positions where
they will have access to the malleable minds of
young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy
Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian
Avengers web page. Also, see AFA Action Alert.
Kinder, gentler pedophiles?
The fag agenda.
The fag agenda includes desensitizing the
public: "The first order of business is
desensitization of the American public concerning
gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public
is to help it view homosexuality with
indifference instead of with keen emotion.
Ideally, we would have straights register
differences in sexual preferences the way they
register different tastes for ice cream or sports
games....At least in the beginning, we are
seeking public desensitization and nothing more.
We do not need and cannot expect a
full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of
homosexuality from the average American. You can
forget about trying to persuade the masses that
homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you
can get them to think that it is just another
thing...then your battle for legal and social
rights is virtually won" (25).
Part of the fag agenda is to get the public to
affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one fag
admitted in the October 1987 fag rally on
Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a
right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We
also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans
already have -- to see government and society
affirm our lives" (27).
Part of the fag agenda is to turn people from
Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female
sexual activity within the bounds and constraints
of marriage is the only acceptable form should be
reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the
Christian religion" (1).
Fags knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10%
figure (i.e., fags make up 10% of the
population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the
Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that
figure when most gay people were entirely hidden
to try to create an impression of our
numerousness" (17).
The Gay Revolutionary .
The true number of fags.
The Kinsey study of 1948, which fags often cite
to say that 10% of the population is homosexual,
actually says that only 4% of the population is
EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a
disproportionate number of people who had been in
jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of
the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies
involving young boys and pedophiles.
Current research shows that the true percentage
of fags is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28).
Consider how small this number is when compared
to most of the numbers above.
Fags aren't discriminated against in employment,
so why should they be a protected class?
The average yearly income of a fag is $55,430.00
(most of which is disposable because no children
to take care of!). The average of the general
population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks
is $12,166.00 (24).
59.6% of fags are college graduates. 18.0% of the
general population are college graduates (24).
Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to
God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools" (Romans 1:22).
49.0% of fags hold professional/managerial
positions. 15.9% of the general population hold
such positions (24). Where's the job
discrimination?
Sexual Orientation
A phrase that has come up recently in this earth
is "sexual orientation." This is a phrase made up
by fags to try to make themselves look less
filthy than they really are. The purpose of the
phrase is to take the spotlight from what these
perverts do, and put it on the notion that they
are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are
attracted to members of the same sex - as if they
aren't engaging in activity forbidden by God
Almighty. "Sexual orientation," as used today,
has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah,
right), but only refers to who or what a
particular person is attracted to. If you think
that people of other "sexual orientations" are
just fine, let's see what other "sexual
orientations" you would necessarily have to
accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going
to discriminate based on "sexual orientation",
then you must not discriminate against any of the
following. If you discriminate against any of
these, you're a hypocrite. These "sexual
orientations" are generally known
as "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just
like homosexuality used to be (29).
Exhibitionism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by the idea of exposing their genitals to
a stranger.
Fetishism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by nonliving objects.
Frotteurism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by the idea of touching and rubbing
against a nonconsenting person.
Pedophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to prepubescent children (usually 13
years or younger).
Sexual Masochism - involves people who are
sexually aroused by being "humiliated, beaten,
bound, or otherwise made to suffer."
Sexual Sadism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by causing the psychological or physical
suffering of a victim (e.g., "restraint,
blindfolding, paddling, spanking, whipping,
pinching, beating, burning, electrical shocks,
rape, cutting, stabbing, strangulation, torture,
mutilation, or killing").
Transvestic Fetishism - involves people who are
sexually aroused by cross-dressing.
Voyeurism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by watching unsuspecting strangers have
sex.
Telephone Scatologia - involves people who are
sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls.
Necrophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to corpses.
Partialism - involves people who are sexually
attracted to exclusively one part of the body.
Zoophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to animals.
Coprophilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by feces.
Klismaphilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by enemas.
Urophilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by urine.

--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
REFERENCES
(1) Advocate, 1985.

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American
Psychiatry.

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a
Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random
Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985,
70, pp. 292-299.

(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of
Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission
of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J.
Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity
Normal?" Marietta, GA.

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books,
1979, p. 275.

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern
for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.

(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay
America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987,
14(2), p. 254.

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current
Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of
Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune
Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American
Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual
Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco."
Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.

(17) Newsweek, February 1993.

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old
Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982,
p. 53.

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We
Talk."

(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide
Magazine. November, 1987.

(26) United States Census Bureau

(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29,
1989.

(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research
Corp.

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric
Association, 1994.

(30) Reuters, Feb. 5, 2001

(31) Center for Disease Control

(32) Associated Press, April 25, 2001















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    Reflections from Jeffrey Satinover


    Recently NARTH spoke to Jeffrey Burke Satinover,
    M.D., a diplomate of the American Board of
    Psychiatry and Neurology and a diplomate of the
    C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland. A
    recently published author, he is now in private
    practice in Connecticut.

    The following text is taken from a radio
    interview in which Dr. Satinover was a guest. He
    spoke to the interviewer as follows:

    In America of late, truth has become subject to
    terrible political pressure. The question isn't
    just homosexuality, but rather, freedom from all
    sexual constraint. This has been an issue for
    civilization for thousands of years.

    I think many people have a sense, especially in
    America, that too many barriers have come down.
    We now have so little of a moral compass that
    we're really completely at sea. We're awash in
    the tide of unconstrained instinctive behaviors
    which are all being labeled "okay" because nobody
    really has a sense, any more, as to what's right
    and what's wrong. In Joseph Campbell's
    words, "Follow your bliss." This has led us into
    a growing barbarism.

    Now we are now looking at a generation of young
    people who are exposed to a sometimes explicit,
    and sometimes implicit set of values that says
    that homosexuality is perfectly okay--it's just a
    complement to heterosexuality.

    The implication of such a set of values to an
    impressionable, possibly confused and certainly
    exploring youngster, is that there is no reason
    whatsoever not to go out and try it and see
    whether it fits. It's simply that a door has been
    opened and a certain number of people will walk
    through that door and thereby expose themselves
    to terrible risks at an age where they are not
    really capable of making intelligent judgments
    about the risks.

    In the news, now, we're hearing so many overblown
    claims of a genetic foundation for homosexuality.
    The whole subject of behavioral genetics is
    complex. It does not lend itself to sound bites
    at all.

    The real genetic question is--what is it in the
    background of people who become homosexual that
    opens that door for them, whereas the door is
    essentially closed for other people?

    In a nutshell, every behavioral trait in human
    nature has a genetic component. For example,
    basketball playing is clearly genetic. If you
    were to perform on basketball players the kinds
    of studies that have been done on homosexuality,
    you would find an unequivocal genetic association-
    -very powerful, probably much stronger than there
    is with homosexuality. But if you ask yourself
    what that's about--it's clear that it's NOT that
    there is a gene for basketball playing...

    The reason there's a genetic association is that
    there's an intermediate trait which allows people
    who carry these traits to become basketball
    players in greater numbers than those who do not
    have those traits--namely, height, athleticism,
    and so on. So it's not surprising that there is a
    growing number of studies that show a genetic
    association to homosexuality. But that is a far
    cry from saying that homosexuality is genetic in
    the way that eye color is genetic.

    Of course, there is a political implication to
    the misuse of the idea that there is a heritable
    component to homosexuality--that is, the false
    notion that if it is "genetic," then it must be
    unchangeable. But I think the most important
    point that one can make about homosexuality is
    that it is significantly changeable--although
    statistically, not for everyone.

    As a matter of fact, there is an extremely
    interesting statistic in the more detailed
    version of the new Sex in America survey (The
    Social Organization of Sexuality), which showed
    that 2.8% of the men in their sample were
    essentially homosexual. But a much larger
    percentage had been homosexual at some point in
    their lives previously. Somewhere between 10% and
    16% had apparently gone through a homosexual
    phase. By gay activist standards they would be
    people who would have a supposed--and supposedly
    fixed--"gay identity," yet by the time they were
    adults and were sampled in the survey, they had
    given homosexuality up. In fact, the largest
    proportion by far had given it up.

    There are also case reports in the psychiatric
    literature of single individuals as well as
    groups of individuals who in a variety of
    settings actually do spontaneously leave a
    homosexual identity.

    The debate over homosexuality has been profoundly
    affected by the current culture of complaint.
    Many, many areas of political life, social life
    and scientific life today are being profoundly
    influenced by the various competing claims and
    cross-claims to victimhood.

    A recent article in a psychiatric publication
    informed us that 30% of all 20-year-old
    homosexual men will be HIV- positive or dead by
    the age of thirty. You would think that the
    objective, ethical medical approach would be:
    let's use anything that works to try to take
    these people out of their posture of risk. If it
    means getting them to wear condoms, fine. If it
    means getting them to give up anal intercourse,
    fine. If it means getting them to give up
    homosexuality, fine. But that last intervention
    is the one intervention that is absolutely taboo.

    There is no doubt that a cold, statistical
    analysis of this epidemic would lead you to the
    conclusion that this attitude of political
    correctness is killing a substantial portion of
    those people. I think there is an element of
    denial, in the psychological sense, of what gay-
    related illnesses really mean.

    The normalization of homosexuality was a classic
    example where the American Psychiatric
    Association knuckled under to a victim group's
    pressure tactics. In that instance, no
    substantive data was presented either to "prove"
    that homosexuality is an illness, or to "prove"
    that it is not.

    Actually, many of the diagnoses that exist in
    psychiatry are labeled as illnesses for reasons
    that have nothing to do with medicine. Instead,
    psychiatric diagnoses are very subject to
    intellectual fads that come and go.

    The reason the APA talks about disorders--rather
    than illnesses--is precisely because there are
    very, very few mental illnesses where underlying
    pathophysiology is even suspected. In most cases,
    if you are going to use the term illness, you
    would have to use it as a metaphor. They are
    possibly spiritual illnesses, or they are ways of
    life that are consensually undesirable. But they
    don't necessarily reflect some underlying
    disorder in the hardware that backs up the mind.

    And so the whole question of what constitutes
    psychiatric illness is already so weak that it
    opened the door for activists to come in and make
    a change in the nomenclature without even having
    to appeal to rigorous scientific standards. Had
    they done so, there simply would have been no
    data one way or another.

    The underlying problem is clearly that we've lost
    our moorings in terms of what life is all about.
    We don't know what's good and what's evil. People
    simply have lost the ability now to stand up and
    say this is good, this is bad, this is what I
    believe in.

    We've now entered into a stage in our
    civilization of absolute nihilism, where the
    opinion leaders--the people who should be the
    moral exemplars--are simply espousing a
    philosophy of absolute nihilism. That's simply
    what it amounts to. The language is very fancy--
    deconstructionism, relativism, etc.--but what it
    all boils down to is that there is nothing
    outside of the cogitations in one's own skull. It
    seems to me that anybody with even a passing
    familiarity with history should see that that
    kind of an attitude leads nowhere but to
    destruction.

    What happened is this: when we began exploring
    the mind as an object of scientific scrutiny,
    independent of the spirit--which is a very new
    idea--we inevitably reduced it to the
    consequences of mechanism. What that means, then,
    is that man is nothing but a machine. A very
    complicated machine--so complicated that we won't
    be able to put all the pieces together--but in
    the end we're merely a gigantic collection of
    molecules bumping around in a stochastic
    universe.

    In adopting the methods of science to understand
    the human psyche, psychology and psychiatry have
    inadvertently put forth a philosophy of life that
    says the psyche is really illusion. Our
    personalities are illusion; everything can be
    seen through, reduced, turned into something
    prior... and human personhood ultimately
    disappears. Of course, our link to the spiritual
    then becomes ever more distant.

    I don't suppose that one can actually break
    through the armor of nihilism using intellect. I
    don't think it can be argued--you have a debate
    and just go around and around. I think, and here
    I'm speaking as a psychiatrist, really--I think
    an individual like that can only give up those
    kinds of intellectual constructions when he is so
    deeply touched personally--possibly so deeply
    wounded personally--that he sees that that
    philosophy of life offers no succor whatsoever,
    and so he's forced to throw himself into
    dependency onto others. What has happened with
    some people, is that they must throw themselves
    onto dependency on God as well. That, then, gets
    around this hyper-intellectual egotism. The gift
    of grace, then, comes through suffering and its
    healing...

    I think what we need in this country is a very
    frank, very wide-open debate, free of political
    correctness, about fundamental values. And I
    think that if the stifling effects of political
    correctness could be eliminated, what would
    happen is that many people who are possibly not
    terribly articulate, but have a very firm and
    accurate moral compass--it's just that they don't
    have the articulation skills of the "chattering
    classes"--they too would begin to be heard, and I
    believe that the intellectuals would follow.

    Intellectuals, I've come to believe, are
    definitely creatures of fashion, and much less
    leaders than they are followers.

    NARTH Interviews Dr. Satinover

    Q: How did you get involved in the issue of
    homosexuality?

    A: I had been reading Leanne Payne's The Healing
    Presence. The book describes a sophisticated
    system of depth psychology from a religious
    context, where psychological insights are united
    with healing prayer. After striking up a
    correspondence with Leanne, I was invited to a
    conference of hers and I accepted. At that time,
    I did not even know that the conference was
    related to homosexuality.

    There I met hundreds of people struggling with
    that issue, and many who had successfully emerged
    on the other side and were married with children.
    As I got to know them, I found them to be quite
    remarkable. The struggle to be healed had left an
    indelible imprint. I saw a humility, an empathy
    and a fearlessness about life. They knew exactly
    what it meant to stand up for what they believed
    in, since the struggle to become who they truly
    were had exacted such a cost in suffering.

    The struggle against homosexuality is like so
    many of the desperate challenges that are common
    to our modern age--so many people are wrestling
    with the results of emotional deprivation within
    the family, because damaged childhoods are so
    endemic. The life story of a homosexual has
    parallels for anyone struggling with spiritual,
    moral and character issues... which is to say,
    all of us!

    These people's particular problem happened to be
    homosexuality, but that was incidental. Their
    battle was a microcosm for the identity problems
    of so many people today, who are struggling with
    what it means to be a man or a woman--with the
    way that men and women can best relate to one
    another in the world--as well as with the larger
    problem of personal identity.

    These people had found their way back from the
    greatest degree of brokenness to embody the
    values that our culture has always held dear (at
    least, until recently). They've lived through the
    most extreme possible crisis and come out the
    other side. They've wrestled with self-deception
    to find the truth, and come out with an assurance
    and self-possession which makes them exemplars of
    what the therapeutic process ought to produce,
    but only rarely does. I wanted to be around these
    people as much as I could, because I knew I had a
    lot to learn from them.

    Q: Before going to this conference, what had you
    believed about homosexuality?

    A: I had always been somewhat of an iconoclast
    and I had therefore been wary of the extent to
    which the psychiatric profession consistently
    sold itself out to political fashion on a lot of
    issues. So I had not bought the PC line entirely.
    Yet, I was still uncertain. But after meeting
    these people who were struggling successfully, I
    realized that to some extent, the wool had been
    pulled over my eyes by both our culture and the
    psychiatric profession. Clearly homosexuality was
    not good, and was changeable.

    Psychiatry has been driven by fashion not just on
    the issue of homosexuality, but on the subjects
    of feminist psychology, self-esteem and
    narcissism. The current concept of self-esteem is
    really an upbeat popularization of the formerly
    negative concept of narcissism. Now there are
    whole schools of psychology devoted to the idea
    that relatively unrestrained narcissism (like
    relatively unrestrained, instinctive self-
    gratification) is perfectly fine. In fact, this
    attitude is now being taught and cultivated in
    our schools.

    Freud also wrestled with the problem of
    narcissism, and he understood that excessive self-
    interest and the vice of vanity would weaken
    human character. But he couldn't solve the
    problem--for without relying on the framework of
    a value system, he simply didn't know what to do
    with the issue. That's because character is, at
    heart, a value-based concept.

    We tend to forget that an internally consistent
    psychoanalysis, as Freud created it, is
    essentially an amoral, value-free philosophy.
    Psychoanalysis is valuable as a method of
    treatment, but it has limited applicability; it
    cannot be taken as the fundamental basis for
    man's world view.

    Then the Self-Psychology School came along in
    the '60's, coalescing around the work of
    psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut. He was the prime mover
    in developing a theory related to self-esteem in
    the psychoanalytic world, and others built upon
    his work.

    Kohut came up with the notion that we all have a
    blueprint for a preexisting self which we have an
    obligation to discover. His ideas crossed over
    into the popular psychology of the Human
    Potential Movement led by Rogers and Maslow, and
    there followed a huge interest in finding that
    preexisting identity.

    But the whole Human Potential and Self-Psychology
    Movement fell victim to the serpent's promise--
    "Ye shall be as gods!"

    Soon society began to view narcissism--in
    whatever form--as healthy, and began to deny that
    humility, modesty and self-sacrifice were really
    virtues.

    We began to believe that we have no obligation to
    live by any set of absolute standards of good and
    evil--we could choose our own. We convinced
    ourselves that self-fulfillment, self-
    actualization, self-realization, and so on was
    the highest standard of good. But it is an
    ancient truth that indeed we must live by
    standards that are outside of ourselves and which
    may, at times, conflict with our own
    natural "blueprints."

    History has taught us that any other course will
    lead us to destruction. For if we imagine that
    nature and human effort and good intentions are
    good enough, it will soon be undeniable that the
    result is evil.

    Q: Should the American Psychiatric Association
    have de-pathologized homosexuality?

    A: In some ways I think the psychiatric
    establishment was right--homosexuality is not a
    disease the way that, say, pneumonia or cancer or
    schizophrenia are diseases. Homosexuality makes a
    certain kind of sense as an understandable
    adaptation to some types of life circumstances.
    If you grow up in a Cosa Nostra family, it makes
    sense to be a sociopath. By the same token, it's
    profoundly confusing to label the sociopathic
    responses, of, say, war orphans as "disordered"
    when a war orphan must become a sociopath in
    order to survive; if he fails to, he may die. So,
    under the circumstances of war, which response
    is "healthier"--that is to say, "adaptive"?

    Homosexuality, too, is a method of adapting to
    adverse circumstances. But like sociopathy, it
    exacts a cost in terms of constrictions in
    relationships.

    There are many psychological "illnesses" which
    cannot be adequately or convincingly explained
    using the medical model of psychiatry. Being
    homosexual is not like having a tumor. We should
    throw out the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
    and start carefully rethinking all of these so-
    called illnesses. Right now, the DSM is mostly a
    collection of problems labeled illnesses because
    they are simply consensually undesirable within
    our present culture. But at base, they are really
    issues of values, philosophy, and character.

    How can we "prove" to the psychiatric
    establishment that homosexuality is
    psychologically unhealthy? When we tried to
    defend the idea that homosexuality is a disorder
    as evidenced by the higher associated suicide
    rate, gay activists said that the suicide was not
    due to the inherently dissatisfying nature of the
    condition--it was due to the stresses of
    homophobia. When we point to the high level of
    gay promiscuity, they said we were using a
    narrow, "heterosexist" and outdated definition of
    promiscuity. Gays could be emotionally faithful
    to one partner, they argued, while being sexually
    active with many partners.

    And you can't get around those arguments unless
    you're actually willing to say that promiscuity
    is an inferior way of life. You need to be able
    to say that some certain standard is better.

    If we can't settle on a shared higher vision,
    then it's amazing what we must be prepared to
    accept. For example, there is actually a growing
    body of literature in sexological journals
    arguing that the psychological and emotional
    benefits of promiscuity more than outweigh the
    risks to life from AIDS.

    So that is the fundamental flaw of psychology--it
    is meaningless without the backdrop of a
    framework of values.

    There I believe homosexuality--like narcissism--
    is best viewed as a spiritual and moral illness.

    Now psychology as a discipline must step up to
    the table and accept responsibility for the
    extent to which it has been propagating an amoral
    ethos. Dostoevsky put it best in The Grand
    Inquisitor: "Without God, everything is
    permissible."

    Dr. Satinover's new book Homosexuality and the
    Politics of Truth is available from Hamewith
    Distributors (203) 221-0031.


    Copyright © NARTH. All Rights Reserved.

    Updated: 5 February 2001

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Vai on Propagandaa lääketieteelliset faktat!?
    Joita maailman arvostetuimmat tieteelliset
    julkaisut julkaisee.
    Todella syytät näitä instituutioita Propagandan
    levittämisestä?

    Tässä lisää faktoja

    Reflections from Jeffrey Satinover


    Recently NARTH spoke to Jeffrey Burke Satinover,
    M.D., a diplomate of the American Board of
    Psychiatry and Neurology and a diplomate of the
    C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland. A
    recently published author, he is now in private
    practice in Connecticut.

    The following text is taken from a radio
    interview in which Dr. Satinover was a guest. He
    spoke to the interviewer as follows:

    In America of late, truth has become subject to
    terrible political pressure. The question isn't
    just homosexuality, but rather, freedom from all
    sexual constraint. This has been an issue for
    civilization for thousands of years.

    I think many people have a sense, especially in
    America, that too many barriers have come down.
    We now have so little of a moral compass that
    we're really completely at sea. We're awash in
    the tide of unconstrained instinctive behaviors
    which are all being labeled "okay" because nobody
    really has a sense, any more, as to what's right
    and what's wrong. In Joseph Campbell's
    words, "Follow your bliss." This has led us into
    a growing barbarism.

    Now we are now looking at a generation of young
    people who are exposed to a sometimes explicit,
    and sometimes implicit set of values that says
    that homosexuality is perfectly okay--it's just a
    complement to heterosexuality.

    The implication of such a set of values to an
    impressionable, possibly confused and certainly
    exploring youngster, is that there is no reason
    whatsoever not to go out and try it and see
    whether it fits. It's simply that a door has been
    opened and a certain number of people will walk
    through that door and thereby expose themselves
    to terrible risks at an age where they are not
    really capable of making intelligent judgments
    about the risks.

    In the news, now, we're hearing so many overblown
    claims of a genetic foundation for homosexuality.
    The whole subject of behavioral genetics is
    complex. It does not lend itself to sound bites
    at all.

    The real genetic question is--what is it in the
    background of people who become homosexual that
    opens that door for them, whereas the door is
    essentially closed for other people?

    In a nutshell, every behavioral trait in human
    nature has a genetic component. For example,
    basketball playing is clearly genetic. If you
    were to perform on basketball players the kinds
    of studies that have been done on homosexuality,
    you would find an unequivocal genetic association-
    -very powerful, probably much stronger than there
    is with homosexuality. But if you ask yourself
    what that's about--it's clear that it's NOT that
    there is a gene for basketball playing...

    The reason there's a genetic association is that
    there's an intermediate trait which allows people
    who carry these traits to become basketball
    players in greater numbers than those who do not
    have those traits--namely, height, athleticism,
    and so on. So it's not surprising that there is a
    growing number of studies that show a genetic
    association to homosexuality. But that is a far
    cry from saying that homosexuality is genetic in
    the way that eye color is genetic.

    Of course, there is a political implication to
    the misuse of the idea that there is a heritable
    component to homosexuality--that is, the false
    notion that if it is "genetic," then it must be
    unchangeable. But I think the most important
    point that one can make about homosexuality is
    that it is significantly changeable--although
    statistically, not for everyone.

    As a matter of fact, there is an extremely
    interesting statistic in the more detailed
    version of the new Sex in America survey (The
    Social Organization of Sexuality), which showed
    that 2.8% of the men in their sample were
    essentially homosexual. But a much larger
    percentage had been homosexual at some point in
    their lives previously. Somewhere between 10% and
    16% had apparently gone through a homosexual
    phase. By gay activist standards they would be
    people who would have a supposed--and supposedly
    fixed--"gay identity," yet by the time they were
    adults and were sampled in the survey, they had
    given homosexuality up. In fact, the largest
    proportion by far had given it up.

    There are also case reports in the psychiatric
    literature of single individuals as well as
    groups of individuals who in a variety of
    settings actually do spontaneously leave a
    homosexual identity.

    The debate over homosexuality has been profoundly
    affected by the current culture of complaint.
    Many, many areas of political life, social life
    and scientific life today are being profoundly
    influenced by the various competing claims and
    cross-claims to victimhood.

    A recent article in a psychiatric publication
    informed us that 30% of all 20-year-old
    homosexual men will be HIV- positive or dead by
    the age of thirty. You would think that the
    objective, ethical medical approach would be:
    let's use anything that works to try to take
    these people out of their posture of risk. If it
    means getting them to wear condoms, fine. If it
    means getting them to give up anal intercourse,
    fine. If it means getting them to give up
    homosexuality, fine. But that last intervention
    is the one intervention that is absolutely taboo.

    There is no doubt that a cold, statistical
    analysis of this epidemic would lead you to the
    conclusion that this attitude of political
    correctness is killing a substantial portion of
    those people. I think there is an element of
    denial, in the psychological sense, of what gay-
    related illnesses really mean.

    The normalization of homosexuality was a classic
    example where the American Psychiatric
    Association knuckled under to a victim group's
    pressure tactics. In that instance, no
    substantive data was presented either to "prove"
    that homosexuality is an illness, or to "prove"
    that it is not.

    Actually, many of the diagnoses that exist in
    psychiatry are labeled as illnesses for reasons
    that have nothing to do with medicine. Instead,
    psychiatric diagnoses are very subject to
    intellectual fads that come and go.

    The reason the APA talks about disorders--rather
    than illnesses--is precisely because there are
    very, very few mental illnesses where underlying
    pathophysiology is even suspected. In most cases,
    if you are going to use the term illness, you
    would have to use it as a metaphor. They are
    possibly spiritual illnesses, or they are ways of
    life that are consensually undesirable. But they
    don't necessarily reflect some underlying
    disorder in the hardware that backs up the mind.

    And so the whole question of what constitutes
    psychiatric illness is already so weak that it
    opened the door for activists to come in and make
    a change in the nomenclature without even having
    to appeal to rigorous scientific standards. Had
    they done so, there simply would have been no
    data one way or another.

    The underlying problem is clearly that we've lost
    our moorings in terms of what life is all about.
    We don't know what's good and what's evil. People
    simply have lost the ability now to stand up and
    say this is good, this is bad, this is what I
    believe in.

    We've now entered into a stage in our
    civilization of absolute nihilism, where the
    opinion leaders--the people who should be the
    moral exemplars--are simply espousing a
    philosophy of absolute nihilism. That's simply
    what it amounts to. The language is very fancy--
    deconstructionism, relativism, etc.--but what it
    all boils down to is that there is nothing
    outside of the cogitations in one's own skull. It
    seems to me that anybody with even a passing
    familiarity with history should see that that
    kind of an attitude leads nowhere but to
    destruction.

    What happened is this: when we began exploring
    the mind as an object of scientific scrutiny,
    independent of the spirit--which is a very new
    idea--we inevitably reduced it to the
    consequences of mechanism. What that means, then,
    is that man is nothing but a machine. A very
    complicated machine--so complicated that we won't
    be able to put all the pieces together--but in
    the end we're merely a gigantic collection of
    molecules bumping around in a stochastic
    universe.

    In adopting the methods of science to understand
    the human psyche, psychology and psychiatry have
    inadvertently put forth a philosophy of life that
    says the psyche is really illusion. Our
    personalities are illusion; everything can be
    seen through, reduced, turned into something
    prior... and human personhood ultimately
    disappears. Of course, our link to the spiritual
    then becomes ever more distant.

    I don't suppose that one can actually break
    through the armor of nihilism using intellect. I
    don't think it can be argued--you have a debate
    and just go around and around. I think, and here
    I'm speaking as a psychiatrist, really--I think
    an individual like that can only give up those
    kinds of intellectual constructions when he is so
    deeply touched personally--possibly so deeply
    wounded personally--that he sees that that
    philosophy of life offers no succor whatsoever,
    and so he's forced to throw himself into
    dependency onto others. What has happened with
    some people, is that they must throw themselves
    onto dependency on God as well. That, then, gets
    around this hyper-intellectual egotism. The gift
    of grace, then, comes through suffering and its
    healing...

    I think what we need in this country is a very
    frank, very wide-open debate, free of political
    correctness, about fundamental values. And I
    think that if the stifling effects of political
    correctness could be eliminated, what would
    happen is that many people who are possibly not
    terribly articulate, but have a very firm and
    accurate moral compass--it's just that they don't
    have the articulation skills of the "chattering
    classes"--they too would begin to be heard, and I
    believe that the intellectuals would follow.

    Intellectuals, I've come to believe, are
    definitely creatures of fashion, and much less
    leaders than they are followers.

    NARTH Interviews Dr. Satinover

    Q: How did you get involved in the issue of
    homosexuality?

    A: I had been reading Leanne Payne's The Healing
    Presence. The book describes a sophisticated
    system of depth psychology from a religious
    context, where psychological insights are united
    with healing prayer. After striking up a
    correspondence with Leanne, I was invited to a
    conference of hers and I accepted. At that time,
    I did not even know that the conference was
    related to homosexuality.

    There I met hundreds of people struggling with
    that issue, and many who had successfully emerged
    on the other side and were married with children.
    As I got to know them, I found them to be quite
    remarkable. The struggle to be healed had left an
    indelible imprint. I saw a humility, an empathy
    and a fearlessness about life. They knew exactly
    what it meant to stand up for what they believed
    in, since the struggle to become who they truly
    were had exacted such a cost in suffering.

    The struggle against homosexuality is like so
    many of the desperate challenges that are common
    to our modern age--so many people are wrestling
    with the results of emotional deprivation within
    the family, because damaged childhoods are so
    endemic. The life story of a homosexual has
    parallels for anyone struggling with spiritual,
    moral and character issues... which is to say,
    all of us!

    These people's particular problem happened to be
    homosexuality, but that was incidental. Their
    battle was a microcosm for the identity problems
    of so many people today, who are struggling with
    what it means to be a man or a woman--with the
    way that men and women can best relate to one
    another in the world--as well as with the larger
    problem of personal identity.

    These people had found their way back from the
    greatest degree of brokenness to embody the
    values that our culture has always held dear (at
    least, until recently). They've lived through the
    most extreme possible crisis and come out the
    other side. They've wrestled with self-deception
    to find the truth, and come out with an assurance
    and self-possession which makes them exemplars of
    what the therapeutic process ought to produce,
    but only rarely does. I wanted to be around these
    people as much as I could, because I knew I had a
    lot to learn from them.

    Q: Before going to this conference, what had you
    believed about homosexuality?

    A: I had always been somewhat of an iconoclast
    and I had therefore been wary of the extent to
    which the psychiatric profession consistently
    sold itself out to political fashion on a lot of
    issues. So I had not bought the PC line entirely.
    Yet, I was still uncertain. But after meeting
    these people who were struggling successfully, I
    realized that to some extent, the wool had been
    pulled over my eyes by both our culture and the
    psychiatric profession. Clearly homosexuality was
    not good, and was changeable.

    Psychiatry has been driven by fashion not just on
    the issue of homosexuality, but on the subjects
    of feminist psychology, self-esteem and
    narcissism. The current concept of self-esteem is
    really an upbeat popularization of the formerly
    negative concept of narcissism. Now there are
    whole schools of psychology devoted to the idea
    that relatively unrestrained narcissism (like
    relatively unrestrained, instinctive self-
    gratification) is perfectly fine. In fact, this
    attitude is now being taught and cultivated in
    our schools.

    Freud also wrestled with the problem of
    narcissism, and he understood that excessive self-
    interest and the vice of vanity would weaken
    human character. But he couldn't solve the
    problem--for without relying on the framework of
    a value system, he simply didn't know what to do
    with the issue. That's because character is, at
    heart, a value-based concept.

    We tend to forget that an internally consistent
    psychoanalysis, as Freud created it, is
    essentially an amoral, value-free philosophy.
    Psychoanalysis is valuable as a method of
    treatment, but it has limited applicability; it
    cannot be taken as the fundamental basis for
    man's world view.

    Then the Self-Psychology School came along in
    the '60's, coalescing around the work of
    psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut. He was the prime mover
    in developing a theory related to self-esteem in
    the psychoanalytic world, and others built upon
    his work.

    Kohut came up with the notion that we all have a
    blueprint for a preexisting self which we have an
    obligation to discover. His ideas crossed over
    into the popular psychology of the Human
    Potential Movement led by Rogers and Maslow, and
    there followed a huge interest in finding that
    preexisting identity.

    But the whole Human Potential and Self-Psychology
    Movement fell victim to the serpent's promise--
    "Ye shall be as gods!"

    Soon society began to view narcissism--in
    whatever form--as healthy, and began to deny that
    humility, modesty and self-sacrifice were really
    virtues.

    We began to believe that we have no obligation to
    live by any set of absolute standards of good and
    evil--we could choose our own. We convinced
    ourselves that self-fulfillment, self-
    actualization, self-realization, and so on was
    the highest standard of good. But it is an
    ancient truth that indeed we must live by
    standards that are outside of ourselves and which
    may, at times, conflict with our own
    natural "blueprints."

    History has taught us that any other course will
    lead us to destruction. For if we imagine that
    nature and human effort and good intentions are
    good enough, it will soon be undeniable that the
    result is evil.

    Q: Should the American Psychiatric Association
    have de-pathologized homosexuality?

    A: In some ways I think the psychiatric
    establishment was right--homosexuality is not a
    disease the way that, say, pneumonia or cancer or
    schizophrenia are diseases. Homosexuality makes a
    certain kind of sense as an understandable
    adaptation to some types of life circumstances.
    If you grow up in a Cosa Nostra family, it makes
    sense to be a sociopath. By the same token, it's
    profoundly confusing to label the sociopathic
    responses, of, say, war orphans as "disordered"
    when a war orphan must become a sociopath in
    order to survive; if he fails to, he may die. So,
    under the circumstances of war, which response
    is "healthier"--that is to say, "adaptive"?

    Homosexuality, too, is a method of adapting to
    adverse circumstances. But like sociopathy, it
    exacts a cost in terms of constrictions in
    relationships.

    There are many psychological "illnesses" which
    cannot be adequately or convincingly explained
    using the medical model of psychiatry. Being
    homosexual is not like having a tumor. We should
    throw out the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
    and start carefully rethinking all of these so-
    called illnesses. Right now, the DSM is mostly a
    collection of problems labeled illnesses because
    they are simply consensually undesirable within
    our present culture. But at base, they are really
    issues of values, philosophy, and character.

    How can we "prove" to the psychiatric
    establishment that homosexuality is
    psychologically unhealthy? When we tried to
    defend the idea that homosexuality is a disorder
    as evidenced by the higher associated suicide
    rate, gay activists said that the suicide was not
    due to the inherently dissatisfying nature of the
    condition--it was due to the stresses of
    homophobia. When we point to the high level of
    gay promiscuity, they said we were using a
    narrow, "heterosexist" and outdated definition of
    promiscuity. Gays could be emotionally faithful
    to one partner, they argued, while being sexually
    active with many partners.

    And you can't get around those arguments unless
    you're actually willing to say that promiscuity
    is an inferior way of life. You need to be able
    to say that some certain standard is better.

    If we can't settle on a shared higher vision,
    then it's amazing what we must be prepared to
    accept. For example, there is actually a growing
    body of literature in sexological journals
    arguing that the psychological and emotional
    benefits of promiscuity more than outweigh the
    risks to life from AIDS.

    So that is the fundamental flaw of psychology--it
    is meaningless without the backdrop of a
    framework of values.

    There I believe homosexuality--like narcissism--
    is best viewed as a spiritual and moral illness.

    Now psychology as a discipline must step up to
    the table and accept responsibility for the
    extent to which it has been propagating an amoral
    ethos. Dostoevsky put it best in The Grand
    Inquisitor: "Without God, everything is
    permissible."

    Dr. Satinover's new book Homosexuality and the
    Politics of Truth is available from Hamewith
    Distributors (203) 221-0031.


    Copyright © NARTH. All Rights Reserved.

    Updated: 5 February 2001

    tieteellisiä järjestöjä?

    *kippurassa maassa*
    HAHHAHHAHHAHAAAA...AIJAIJAI....

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    tieteellisiä järjestöjä?

    *kippurassa maassa*
    HAHHAHHAHHAHAAAA...AIJAIJAI....

    Katsoitko tekstin alaviitteet? Ei tosiasiat muutu
    valheeksi sen perusteella, kuka ne tuo julki.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    tieteellisiä järjestöjä?

    *kippurassa maassa*
    HAHHAHHAHHAHAAAA...AIJAIJAI....

    Katsoitko tekstin alaviitteet? Ei tosiasiat muutu
    valheeksi sen perusteella, kuka ne tuo julki.

    Äänestä

  • Taha Islam kirjoitti:

    Katsoitko tekstin alaviitteet? Ei tosiasiat muutu
    valheeksi sen perusteella, kuka ne tuo julki.

    onkin kyseessä lähteiden valikoivuus ja
    pseudotieteellisiin järjestöihin vetoaminen.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    onkin kyseessä lähteiden valikoivuus ja
    pseudotieteellisiin järjestöihin vetoaminen.

    Voisitko selvittää, mikä ko. lähteistä on
    tahallaan tai tahattomasti epärehellinen?
    Joukossa näyttää olevan arvostettuja
    instituutioita.

    Ei USA:n tilastokeskuksen tai New England Medical
    Journalin tiedot muutu vääriksi, jos joku niitä
    omiin tarkoituksiinsa lainaa.

    Tiedän, että uskonnolliset järjestöt valehtelevat
    joskus tietoisesti ja minulla on siitä todisteet.

    Äänestä

  • Taha Islam kirjoitti:

    Voisitko selvittää, mikä ko. lähteistä on
    tahallaan tai tahattomasti epärehellinen?
    Joukossa näyttää olevan arvostettuja
    instituutioita.

    Ei USA:n tilastokeskuksen tai New England Medical
    Journalin tiedot muutu vääriksi, jos joku niitä
    omiin tarkoituksiinsa lainaa.

    Tiedän, että uskonnolliset järjestöt valehtelevat
    joskus tietoisesti ja minulla on siitä todisteet.

    älä viitsi. babtistikirkko ja NARTH eivät ole
    tieteellisesti arvostettuja saati
    varteenotettavia instituutioita. lähteet taas on
    valikoitu.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    älä viitsi. babtistikirkko ja NARTH eivät ole
    tieteellisesti arvostettuja saati
    varteenotettavia instituutioita. lähteet taas on
    valikoitu.

    En tarkoittanut babtistikirkkoa tai NARTH:ia, kun
    puhuin lähteistä.

    Kirjoituksen, vaikka homofobinen olikin, lähteinä
    oli vaikutusvaltaisia ja arvostettuja
    instituutioita.

    Mitkä lähteet, muut, kuin kirjoituksessa
    mainitut, olisivat luotettavampia?

    Jos väitän, että alkoholin juominen on
    yhteiskunnalle vahingollista ja lainaan
    Sisäministeriön, Kansanterveyslaitoksen ja
    Sosiaali- ja terveysministeriön tilastoja
    väitteeni tueksi, tekeekö se minusta alkoholin
    vastustajan?

    Äänestä

  • Taha Islam kirjoitti:

    En tarkoittanut babtistikirkkoa tai NARTH:ia, kun
    puhuin lähteistä.

    Kirjoituksen, vaikka homofobinen olikin, lähteinä
    oli vaikutusvaltaisia ja arvostettuja
    instituutioita.

    Mitkä lähteet, muut, kuin kirjoituksessa
    mainitut, olisivat luotettavampia?

    Jos väitän, että alkoholin juominen on
    yhteiskunnalle vahingollista ja lainaan
    Sisäministeriön, Kansanterveyslaitoksen ja
    Sosiaali- ja terveysministeriön tilastoja
    väitteeni tueksi, tekeekö se minusta alkoholin
    vastustajan?

    Kaikki lähteet valikoi tietyltä vuosikymmeltä,
    valikoitu NARTHin ja babtistikirkon esitystä
    varten, mitä nuo kokonaisuudessaan ovat.

    NARTH ja babtistikirkko eivät ole tieteellisiä
    järjestöjä, mikä varmasti vaikuttaa lähteisiin,
    joita haetaan jopa 1960- luvulta, ja käytetään
    esityksessä!
    Tutkimuksia varmasti löytyy puoltamaan miltei
    kaikkea. Niiden oikeellisuus on... asia erikseen.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    Kaikki lähteet valikoi tietyltä vuosikymmeltä,
    valikoitu NARTHin ja babtistikirkon esitystä
    varten, mitä nuo kokonaisuudessaan ovat.

    NARTH ja babtistikirkko eivät ole tieteellisiä
    järjestöjä, mikä varmasti vaikuttaa lähteisiin,
    joita haetaan jopa 1960- luvulta, ja käytetään
    esityksessä!
    Tutkimuksia varmasti löytyy puoltamaan miltei
    kaikkea. Niiden oikeellisuus on... asia erikseen.

    .

    Äänestä

  • Taha Islam kirjoitti:

    .

    Harva täysjärkinen tukee yhtä syrjivää ja
    virheellistä näkemystä.

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Vai on Propagandaa lääketieteelliset faktat!?
    Joita maailman arvostetuimmat tieteelliset
    julkaisut julkaisee.
    Todella syytät näitä instituutioita Propagandan
    levittämisestä?

    Tässä lisää faktoja

    Reflections from Jeffrey Satinover


    Recently NARTH spoke to Jeffrey Burke Satinover,
    M.D., a diplomate of the American Board of
    Psychiatry and Neurology and a diplomate of the
    C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland. A
    recently published author, he is now in private
    practice in Connecticut.

    The following text is taken from a radio
    interview in which Dr. Satinover was a guest. He
    spoke to the interviewer as follows:

    In America of late, truth has become subject to
    terrible political pressure. The question isn't
    just homosexuality, but rather, freedom from all
    sexual constraint. This has been an issue for
    civilization for thousands of years.

    I think many people have a sense, especially in
    America, that too many barriers have come down.
    We now have so little of a moral compass that
    we're really completely at sea. We're awash in
    the tide of unconstrained instinctive behaviors
    which are all being labeled "okay" because nobody
    really has a sense, any more, as to what's right
    and what's wrong. In Joseph Campbell's
    words, "Follow your bliss." This has led us into
    a growing barbarism.

    Now we are now looking at a generation of young
    people who are exposed to a sometimes explicit,
    and sometimes implicit set of values that says
    that homosexuality is perfectly okay--it's just a
    complement to heterosexuality.

    The implication of such a set of values to an
    impressionable, possibly confused and certainly
    exploring youngster, is that there is no reason
    whatsoever not to go out and try it and see
    whether it fits. It's simply that a door has been
    opened and a certain number of people will walk
    through that door and thereby expose themselves
    to terrible risks at an age where they are not
    really capable of making intelligent judgments
    about the risks.

    In the news, now, we're hearing so many overblown
    claims of a genetic foundation for homosexuality.
    The whole subject of behavioral genetics is
    complex. It does not lend itself to sound bites
    at all.

    The real genetic question is--what is it in the
    background of people who become homosexual that
    opens that door for them, whereas the door is
    essentially closed for other people?

    In a nutshell, every behavioral trait in human
    nature has a genetic component. For example,
    basketball playing is clearly genetic. If you
    were to perform on basketball players the kinds
    of studies that have been done on homosexuality,
    you would find an unequivocal genetic association-
    -very powerful, probably much stronger than there
    is with homosexuality. But if you ask yourself
    what that's about--it's clear that it's NOT that
    there is a gene for basketball playing...

    The reason there's a genetic association is that
    there's an intermediate trait which allows people
    who carry these traits to become basketball
    players in greater numbers than those who do not
    have those traits--namely, height, athleticism,
    and so on. So it's not surprising that there is a
    growing number of studies that show a genetic
    association to homosexuality. But that is a far
    cry from saying that homosexuality is genetic in
    the way that eye color is genetic.

    Of course, there is a political implication to
    the misuse of the idea that there is a heritable
    component to homosexuality--that is, the false
    notion that if it is "genetic," then it must be
    unchangeable. But I think the most important
    point that one can make about homosexuality is
    that it is significantly changeable--although
    statistically, not for everyone.

    As a matter of fact, there is an extremely
    interesting statistic in the more detailed
    version of the new Sex in America survey (The
    Social Organization of Sexuality), which showed
    that 2.8% of the men in their sample were
    essentially homosexual. But a much larger
    percentage had been homosexual at some point in
    their lives previously. Somewhere between 10% and
    16% had apparently gone through a homosexual
    phase. By gay activist standards they would be
    people who would have a supposed--and supposedly
    fixed--"gay identity," yet by the time they were
    adults and were sampled in the survey, they had
    given homosexuality up. In fact, the largest
    proportion by far had given it up.

    There are also case reports in the psychiatric
    literature of single individuals as well as
    groups of individuals who in a variety of
    settings actually do spontaneously leave a
    homosexual identity.

    The debate over homosexuality has been profoundly
    affected by the current culture of complaint.
    Many, many areas of political life, social life
    and scientific life today are being profoundly
    influenced by the various competing claims and
    cross-claims to victimhood.

    A recent article in a psychiatric publication
    informed us that 30% of all 20-year-old
    homosexual men will be HIV- positive or dead by
    the age of thirty. You would think that the
    objective, ethical medical approach would be:
    let's use anything that works to try to take
    these people out of their posture of risk. If it
    means getting them to wear condoms, fine. If it
    means getting them to give up anal intercourse,
    fine. If it means getting them to give up
    homosexuality, fine. But that last intervention
    is the one intervention that is absolutely taboo.

    There is no doubt that a cold, statistical
    analysis of this epidemic would lead you to the
    conclusion that this attitude of political
    correctness is killing a substantial portion of
    those people. I think there is an element of
    denial, in the psychological sense, of what gay-
    related illnesses really mean.

    The normalization of homosexuality was a classic
    example where the American Psychiatric
    Association knuckled under to a victim group's
    pressure tactics. In that instance, no
    substantive data was presented either to "prove"
    that homosexuality is an illness, or to "prove"
    that it is not.

    Actually, many of the diagnoses that exist in
    psychiatry are labeled as illnesses for reasons
    that have nothing to do with medicine. Instead,
    psychiatric diagnoses are very subject to
    intellectual fads that come and go.

    The reason the APA talks about disorders--rather
    than illnesses--is precisely because there are
    very, very few mental illnesses where underlying
    pathophysiology is even suspected. In most cases,
    if you are going to use the term illness, you
    would have to use it as a metaphor. They are
    possibly spiritual illnesses, or they are ways of
    life that are consensually undesirable. But they
    don't necessarily reflect some underlying
    disorder in the hardware that backs up the mind.

    And so the whole question of what constitutes
    psychiatric illness is already so weak that it
    opened the door for activists to come in and make
    a change in the nomenclature without even having
    to appeal to rigorous scientific standards. Had
    they done so, there simply would have been no
    data one way or another.

    The underlying problem is clearly that we've lost
    our moorings in terms of what life is all about.
    We don't know what's good and what's evil. People
    simply have lost the ability now to stand up and
    say this is good, this is bad, this is what I
    believe in.

    We've now entered into a stage in our
    civilization of absolute nihilism, where the
    opinion leaders--the people who should be the
    moral exemplars--are simply espousing a
    philosophy of absolute nihilism. That's simply
    what it amounts to. The language is very fancy--
    deconstructionism, relativism, etc.--but what it
    all boils down to is that there is nothing
    outside of the cogitations in one's own skull. It
    seems to me that anybody with even a passing
    familiarity with history should see that that
    kind of an attitude leads nowhere but to
    destruction.

    What happened is this: when we began exploring
    the mind as an object of scientific scrutiny,
    independent of the spirit--which is a very new
    idea--we inevitably reduced it to the
    consequences of mechanism. What that means, then,
    is that man is nothing but a machine. A very
    complicated machine--so complicated that we won't
    be able to put all the pieces together--but in
    the end we're merely a gigantic collection of
    molecules bumping around in a stochastic
    universe.

    In adopting the methods of science to understand
    the human psyche, psychology and psychiatry have
    inadvertently put forth a philosophy of life that
    says the psyche is really illusion. Our
    personalities are illusion; everything can be
    seen through, reduced, turned into something
    prior... and human personhood ultimately
    disappears. Of course, our link to the spiritual
    then becomes ever more distant.

    I don't suppose that one can actually break
    through the armor of nihilism using intellect. I
    don't think it can be argued--you have a debate
    and just go around and around. I think, and here
    I'm speaking as a psychiatrist, really--I think
    an individual like that can only give up those
    kinds of intellectual constructions when he is so
    deeply touched personally--possibly so deeply
    wounded personally--that he sees that that
    philosophy of life offers no succor whatsoever,
    and so he's forced to throw himself into
    dependency onto others. What has happened with
    some people, is that they must throw themselves
    onto dependency on God as well. That, then, gets
    around this hyper-intellectual egotism. The gift
    of grace, then, comes through suffering and its
    healing...

    I think what we need in this country is a very
    frank, very wide-open debate, free of political
    correctness, about fundamental values. And I
    think that if the stifling effects of political
    correctness could be eliminated, what would
    happen is that many people who are possibly not
    terribly articulate, but have a very firm and
    accurate moral compass--it's just that they don't
    have the articulation skills of the "chattering
    classes"--they too would begin to be heard, and I
    believe that the intellectuals would follow.

    Intellectuals, I've come to believe, are
    definitely creatures of fashion, and much less
    leaders than they are followers.

    NARTH Interviews Dr. Satinover

    Q: How did you get involved in the issue of
    homosexuality?

    A: I had been reading Leanne Payne's The Healing
    Presence. The book describes a sophisticated
    system of depth psychology from a religious
    context, where psychological insights are united
    with healing prayer. After striking up a
    correspondence with Leanne, I was invited to a
    conference of hers and I accepted. At that time,
    I did not even know that the conference was
    related to homosexuality.

    There I met hundreds of people struggling with
    that issue, and many who had successfully emerged
    on the other side and were married with children.
    As I got to know them, I found them to be quite
    remarkable. The struggle to be healed had left an
    indelible imprint. I saw a humility, an empathy
    and a fearlessness about life. They knew exactly
    what it meant to stand up for what they believed
    in, since the struggle to become who they truly
    were had exacted such a cost in suffering.

    The struggle against homosexuality is like so
    many of the desperate challenges that are common
    to our modern age--so many people are wrestling
    with the results of emotional deprivation within
    the family, because damaged childhoods are so
    endemic. The life story of a homosexual has
    parallels for anyone struggling with spiritual,
    moral and character issues... which is to say,
    all of us!

    These people's particular problem happened to be
    homosexuality, but that was incidental. Their
    battle was a microcosm for the identity problems
    of so many people today, who are struggling with
    what it means to be a man or a woman--with the
    way that men and women can best relate to one
    another in the world--as well as with the larger
    problem of personal identity.

    These people had found their way back from the
    greatest degree of brokenness to embody the
    values that our culture has always held dear (at
    least, until recently). They've lived through the
    most extreme possible crisis and come out the
    other side. They've wrestled with self-deception
    to find the truth, and come out with an assurance
    and self-possession which makes them exemplars of
    what the therapeutic process ought to produce,
    but only rarely does. I wanted to be around these
    people as much as I could, because I knew I had a
    lot to learn from them.

    Q: Before going to this conference, what had you
    believed about homosexuality?

    A: I had always been somewhat of an iconoclast
    and I had therefore been wary of the extent to
    which the psychiatric profession consistently
    sold itself out to political fashion on a lot of
    issues. So I had not bought the PC line entirely.
    Yet, I was still uncertain. But after meeting
    these people who were struggling successfully, I
    realized that to some extent, the wool had been
    pulled over my eyes by both our culture and the
    psychiatric profession. Clearly homosexuality was
    not good, and was changeable.

    Psychiatry has been driven by fashion not just on
    the issue of homosexuality, but on the subjects
    of feminist psychology, self-esteem and
    narcissism. The current concept of self-esteem is
    really an upbeat popularization of the formerly
    negative concept of narcissism. Now there are
    whole schools of psychology devoted to the idea
    that relatively unrestrained narcissism (like
    relatively unrestrained, instinctive self-
    gratification) is perfectly fine. In fact, this
    attitude is now being taught and cultivated in
    our schools.

    Freud also wrestled with the problem of
    narcissism, and he understood that excessive self-
    interest and the vice of vanity would weaken
    human character. But he couldn't solve the
    problem--for without relying on the framework of
    a value system, he simply didn't know what to do
    with the issue. That's because character is, at
    heart, a value-based concept.

    We tend to forget that an internally consistent
    psychoanalysis, as Freud created it, is
    essentially an amoral, value-free philosophy.
    Psychoanalysis is valuable as a method of
    treatment, but it has limited applicability; it
    cannot be taken as the fundamental basis for
    man's world view.

    Then the Self-Psychology School came along in
    the '60's, coalescing around the work of
    psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut. He was the prime mover
    in developing a theory related to self-esteem in
    the psychoanalytic world, and others built upon
    his work.

    Kohut came up with the notion that we all have a
    blueprint for a preexisting self which we have an
    obligation to discover. His ideas crossed over
    into the popular psychology of the Human
    Potential Movement led by Rogers and Maslow, and
    there followed a huge interest in finding that
    preexisting identity.

    But the whole Human Potential and Self-Psychology
    Movement fell victim to the serpent's promise--
    "Ye shall be as gods!"

    Soon society began to view narcissism--in
    whatever form--as healthy, and began to deny that
    humility, modesty and self-sacrifice were really
    virtues.

    We began to believe that we have no obligation to
    live by any set of absolute standards of good and
    evil--we could choose our own. We convinced
    ourselves that self-fulfillment, self-
    actualization, self-realization, and so on was
    the highest standard of good. But it is an
    ancient truth that indeed we must live by
    standards that are outside of ourselves and which
    may, at times, conflict with our own
    natural "blueprints."

    History has taught us that any other course will
    lead us to destruction. For if we imagine that
    nature and human effort and good intentions are
    good enough, it will soon be undeniable that the
    result is evil.

    Q: Should the American Psychiatric Association
    have de-pathologized homosexuality?

    A: In some ways I think the psychiatric
    establishment was right--homosexuality is not a
    disease the way that, say, pneumonia or cancer or
    schizophrenia are diseases. Homosexuality makes a
    certain kind of sense as an understandable
    adaptation to some types of life circumstances.
    If you grow up in a Cosa Nostra family, it makes
    sense to be a sociopath. By the same token, it's
    profoundly confusing to label the sociopathic
    responses, of, say, war orphans as "disordered"
    when a war orphan must become a sociopath in
    order to survive; if he fails to, he may die. So,
    under the circumstances of war, which response
    is "healthier"--that is to say, "adaptive"?

    Homosexuality, too, is a method of adapting to
    adverse circumstances. But like sociopathy, it
    exacts a cost in terms of constrictions in
    relationships.

    There are many psychological "illnesses" which
    cannot be adequately or convincingly explained
    using the medical model of psychiatry. Being
    homosexual is not like having a tumor. We should
    throw out the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
    and start carefully rethinking all of these so-
    called illnesses. Right now, the DSM is mostly a
    collection of problems labeled illnesses because
    they are simply consensually undesirable within
    our present culture. But at base, they are really
    issues of values, philosophy, and character.

    How can we "prove" to the psychiatric
    establishment that homosexuality is
    psychologically unhealthy? When we tried to
    defend the idea that homosexuality is a disorder
    as evidenced by the higher associated suicide
    rate, gay activists said that the suicide was not
    due to the inherently dissatisfying nature of the
    condition--it was due to the stresses of
    homophobia. When we point to the high level of
    gay promiscuity, they said we were using a
    narrow, "heterosexist" and outdated definition of
    promiscuity. Gays could be emotionally faithful
    to one partner, they argued, while being sexually
    active with many partners.

    And you can't get around those arguments unless
    you're actually willing to say that promiscuity
    is an inferior way of life. You need to be able
    to say that some certain standard is better.

    If we can't settle on a shared higher vision,
    then it's amazing what we must be prepared to
    accept. For example, there is actually a growing
    body of literature in sexological journals
    arguing that the psychological and emotional
    benefits of promiscuity more than outweigh the
    risks to life from AIDS.

    So that is the fundamental flaw of psychology--it
    is meaningless without the backdrop of a
    framework of values.

    There I believe homosexuality--like narcissism--
    is best viewed as a spiritual and moral illness.

    Now psychology as a discipline must step up to
    the table and accept responsibility for the
    extent to which it has been propagating an amoral
    ethos. Dostoevsky put it best in The Grand
    Inquisitor: "Without God, everything is
    permissible."

    Dr. Satinover's new book Homosexuality and the
    Politics of Truth is available from Hamewith
    Distributors (203) 221-0031.


    Copyright © NARTH. All Rights Reserved.

    Updated: 5 February 2001

    tekstissä ei käytetä sanaa faks, mikä on
    suomennettavissa "hintti", joten viepäs
    hölynpölysi sinne hiekkalaatikolle takaisin ja
    pyydä äidiltä vaikka piparkakku!:)

    Äänestä

  • Typsykkä77 kirjoitti:

    tekstissä ei käytetä sanaa faks, mikä on
    suomennettavissa "hintti", joten viepäs
    hölynpölysi sinne hiekkalaatikolle takaisin ja
    pyydä äidiltä vaikka piparkakku!:)

    "Typsykkä" Pitäsikö sinun osallstua englannin
    kurssille ja opetella kuinka julkaistua
    artikkelia luetaan oikein. Suomessa on paljon
    ihmisiä jotka omaavat teknisen lukutaidon, mutta
    ymmärtävät asiat väärin. Tekstissä sana "FAG"
    esiintyy aivan irrallaan näistä arvostetuista
    tiedejulkaisuista ja ovat ainoastaan sivua
    ylläpitävän ryhmän tai henkilön henkilökohtaisia
    ilmaisuja, eivätkä News Weekin tai jonkun muun
    vastaavan. Sana "GAY" tarkoitti alunperin
    englannin kielellä onnellista ja siitä on
    muodostunut yleinen ilmaisu homoille. Samoin
    sana "FAG" on usein amerikassa myös homojen
    itsensä kayttämä. Sana "GAY" esiintyy edelleen
    yleisenä ilmauksena tavallisessa arkikielessä
    tarkoittaen "iloista". Kannattaa tutustua
    esitettyyn materiaaliin tarkemmin ja vasta sitten
    tehdä johto päätöksensä.

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Vai on Propagandaa lääketieteelliset faktat!?
    Joita maailman arvostetuimmat tieteelliset
    julkaisut julkaisee.
    Todella syytät näitä instituutioita Propagandan
    levittämisestä?

    Tässä lisää faktoja

    Reflections from Jeffrey Satinover


    Recently NARTH spoke to Jeffrey Burke Satinover,
    M.D., a diplomate of the American Board of
    Psychiatry and Neurology and a diplomate of the
    C.G. Jung Institute of Zurich, Switzerland. A
    recently published author, he is now in private
    practice in Connecticut.

    The following text is taken from a radio
    interview in which Dr. Satinover was a guest. He
    spoke to the interviewer as follows:

    In America of late, truth has become subject to
    terrible political pressure. The question isn't
    just homosexuality, but rather, freedom from all
    sexual constraint. This has been an issue for
    civilization for thousands of years.

    I think many people have a sense, especially in
    America, that too many barriers have come down.
    We now have so little of a moral compass that
    we're really completely at sea. We're awash in
    the tide of unconstrained instinctive behaviors
    which are all being labeled "okay" because nobody
    really has a sense, any more, as to what's right
    and what's wrong. In Joseph Campbell's
    words, "Follow your bliss." This has led us into
    a growing barbarism.

    Now we are now looking at a generation of young
    people who are exposed to a sometimes explicit,
    and sometimes implicit set of values that says
    that homosexuality is perfectly okay--it's just a
    complement to heterosexuality.

    The implication of such a set of values to an
    impressionable, possibly confused and certainly
    exploring youngster, is that there is no reason
    whatsoever not to go out and try it and see
    whether it fits. It's simply that a door has been
    opened and a certain number of people will walk
    through that door and thereby expose themselves
    to terrible risks at an age where they are not
    really capable of making intelligent judgments
    about the risks.

    In the news, now, we're hearing so many overblown
    claims of a genetic foundation for homosexuality.
    The whole subject of behavioral genetics is
    complex. It does not lend itself to sound bites
    at all.

    The real genetic question is--what is it in the
    background of people who become homosexual that
    opens that door for them, whereas the door is
    essentially closed for other people?

    In a nutshell, every behavioral trait in human
    nature has a genetic component. For example,
    basketball playing is clearly genetic. If you
    were to perform on basketball players the kinds
    of studies that have been done on homosexuality,
    you would find an unequivocal genetic association-
    -very powerful, probably much stronger than there
    is with homosexuality. But if you ask yourself
    what that's about--it's clear that it's NOT that
    there is a gene for basketball playing...

    The reason there's a genetic association is that
    there's an intermediate trait which allows people
    who carry these traits to become basketball
    players in greater numbers than those who do not
    have those traits--namely, height, athleticism,
    and so on. So it's not surprising that there is a
    growing number of studies that show a genetic
    association to homosexuality. But that is a far
    cry from saying that homosexuality is genetic in
    the way that eye color is genetic.

    Of course, there is a political implication to
    the misuse of the idea that there is a heritable
    component to homosexuality--that is, the false
    notion that if it is "genetic," then it must be
    unchangeable. But I think the most important
    point that one can make about homosexuality is
    that it is significantly changeable--although
    statistically, not for everyone.

    As a matter of fact, there is an extremely
    interesting statistic in the more detailed
    version of the new Sex in America survey (The
    Social Organization of Sexuality), which showed
    that 2.8% of the men in their sample were
    essentially homosexual. But a much larger
    percentage had been homosexual at some point in
    their lives previously. Somewhere between 10% and
    16% had apparently gone through a homosexual
    phase. By gay activist standards they would be
    people who would have a supposed--and supposedly
    fixed--"gay identity," yet by the time they were
    adults and were sampled in the survey, they had
    given homosexuality up. In fact, the largest
    proportion by far had given it up.

    There are also case reports in the psychiatric
    literature of single individuals as well as
    groups of individuals who in a variety of
    settings actually do spontaneously leave a
    homosexual identity.

    The debate over homosexuality has been profoundly
    affected by the current culture of complaint.
    Many, many areas of political life, social life
    and scientific life today are being profoundly
    influenced by the various competing claims and
    cross-claims to victimhood.

    A recent article in a psychiatric publication
    informed us that 30% of all 20-year-old
    homosexual men will be HIV- positive or dead by
    the age of thirty. You would think that the
    objective, ethical medical approach would be:
    let's use anything that works to try to take
    these people out of their posture of risk. If it
    means getting them to wear condoms, fine. If it
    means getting them to give up anal intercourse,
    fine. If it means getting them to give up
    homosexuality, fine. But that last intervention
    is the one intervention that is absolutely taboo.

    There is no doubt that a cold, statistical
    analysis of this epidemic would lead you to the
    conclusion that this attitude of political
    correctness is killing a substantial portion of
    those people. I think there is an element of
    denial, in the psychological sense, of what gay-
    related illnesses really mean.

    The normalization of homosexuality was a classic
    example where the American Psychiatric
    Association knuckled under to a victim group's
    pressure tactics. In that instance, no
    substantive data was presented either to "prove"
    that homosexuality is an illness, or to "prove"
    that it is not.

    Actually, many of the diagnoses that exist in
    psychiatry are labeled as illnesses for reasons
    that have nothing to do with medicine. Instead,
    psychiatric diagnoses are very subject to
    intellectual fads that come and go.

    The reason the APA talks about disorders--rather
    than illnesses--is precisely because there are
    very, very few mental illnesses where underlying
    pathophysiology is even suspected. In most cases,
    if you are going to use the term illness, you
    would have to use it as a metaphor. They are
    possibly spiritual illnesses, or they are ways of
    life that are consensually undesirable. But they
    don't necessarily reflect some underlying
    disorder in the hardware that backs up the mind.

    And so the whole question of what constitutes
    psychiatric illness is already so weak that it
    opened the door for activists to come in and make
    a change in the nomenclature without even having
    to appeal to rigorous scientific standards. Had
    they done so, there simply would have been no
    data one way or another.

    The underlying problem is clearly that we've lost
    our moorings in terms of what life is all about.
    We don't know what's good and what's evil. People
    simply have lost the ability now to stand up and
    say this is good, this is bad, this is what I
    believe in.

    We've now entered into a stage in our
    civilization of absolute nihilism, where the
    opinion leaders--the people who should be the
    moral exemplars--are simply espousing a
    philosophy of absolute nihilism. That's simply
    what it amounts to. The language is very fancy--
    deconstructionism, relativism, etc.--but what it
    all boils down to is that there is nothing
    outside of the cogitations in one's own skull. It
    seems to me that anybody with even a passing
    familiarity with history should see that that
    kind of an attitude leads nowhere but to
    destruction.

    What happened is this: when we began exploring
    the mind as an object of scientific scrutiny,
    independent of the spirit--which is a very new
    idea--we inevitably reduced it to the
    consequences of mechanism. What that means, then,
    is that man is nothing but a machine. A very
    complicated machine--so complicated that we won't
    be able to put all the pieces together--but in
    the end we're merely a gigantic collection of
    molecules bumping around in a stochastic
    universe.

    In adopting the methods of science to understand
    the human psyche, psychology and psychiatry have
    inadvertently put forth a philosophy of life that
    says the psyche is really illusion. Our
    personalities are illusion; everything can be
    seen through, reduced, turned into something
    prior... and human personhood ultimately
    disappears. Of course, our link to the spiritual
    then becomes ever more distant.

    I don't suppose that one can actually break
    through the armor of nihilism using intellect. I
    don't think it can be argued--you have a debate
    and just go around and around. I think, and here
    I'm speaking as a psychiatrist, really--I think
    an individual like that can only give up those
    kinds of intellectual constructions when he is so
    deeply touched personally--possibly so deeply
    wounded personally--that he sees that that
    philosophy of life offers no succor whatsoever,
    and so he's forced to throw himself into
    dependency onto others. What has happened with
    some people, is that they must throw themselves
    onto dependency on God as well. That, then, gets
    around this hyper-intellectual egotism. The gift
    of grace, then, comes through suffering and its
    healing...

    I think what we need in this country is a very
    frank, very wide-open debate, free of political
    correctness, about fundamental values. And I
    think that if the stifling effects of political
    correctness could be eliminated, what would
    happen is that many people who are possibly not
    terribly articulate, but have a very firm and
    accurate moral compass--it's just that they don't
    have the articulation skills of the "chattering
    classes"--they too would begin to be heard, and I
    believe that the intellectuals would follow.

    Intellectuals, I've come to believe, are
    definitely creatures of fashion, and much less
    leaders than they are followers.

    NARTH Interviews Dr. Satinover

    Q: How did you get involved in the issue of
    homosexuality?

    A: I had been reading Leanne Payne's The Healing
    Presence. The book describes a sophisticated
    system of depth psychology from a religious
    context, where psychological insights are united
    with healing prayer. After striking up a
    correspondence with Leanne, I was invited to a
    conference of hers and I accepted. At that time,
    I did not even know that the conference was
    related to homosexuality.

    There I met hundreds of people struggling with
    that issue, and many who had successfully emerged
    on the other side and were married with children.
    As I got to know them, I found them to be quite
    remarkable. The struggle to be healed had left an
    indelible imprint. I saw a humility, an empathy
    and a fearlessness about life. They knew exactly
    what it meant to stand up for what they believed
    in, since the struggle to become who they truly
    were had exacted such a cost in suffering.

    The struggle against homosexuality is like so
    many of the desperate challenges that are common
    to our modern age--so many people are wrestling
    with the results of emotional deprivation within
    the family, because damaged childhoods are so
    endemic. The life story of a homosexual has
    parallels for anyone struggling with spiritual,
    moral and character issues... which is to say,
    all of us!

    These people's particular problem happened to be
    homosexuality, but that was incidental. Their
    battle was a microcosm for the identity problems
    of so many people today, who are struggling with
    what it means to be a man or a woman--with the
    way that men and women can best relate to one
    another in the world--as well as with the larger
    problem of personal identity.

    These people had found their way back from the
    greatest degree of brokenness to embody the
    values that our culture has always held dear (at
    least, until recently). They've lived through the
    most extreme possible crisis and come out the
    other side. They've wrestled with self-deception
    to find the truth, and come out with an assurance
    and self-possession which makes them exemplars of
    what the therapeutic process ought to produce,
    but only rarely does. I wanted to be around these
    people as much as I could, because I knew I had a
    lot to learn from them.

    Q: Before going to this conference, what had you
    believed about homosexuality?

    A: I had always been somewhat of an iconoclast
    and I had therefore been wary of the extent to
    which the psychiatric profession consistently
    sold itself out to political fashion on a lot of
    issues. So I had not bought the PC line entirely.
    Yet, I was still uncertain. But after meeting
    these people who were struggling successfully, I
    realized that to some extent, the wool had been
    pulled over my eyes by both our culture and the
    psychiatric profession. Clearly homosexuality was
    not good, and was changeable.

    Psychiatry has been driven by fashion not just on
    the issue of homosexuality, but on the subjects
    of feminist psychology, self-esteem and
    narcissism. The current concept of self-esteem is
    really an upbeat popularization of the formerly
    negative concept of narcissism. Now there are
    whole schools of psychology devoted to the idea
    that relatively unrestrained narcissism (like
    relatively unrestrained, instinctive self-
    gratification) is perfectly fine. In fact, this
    attitude is now being taught and cultivated in
    our schools.

    Freud also wrestled with the problem of
    narcissism, and he understood that excessive self-
    interest and the vice of vanity would weaken
    human character. But he couldn't solve the
    problem--for without relying on the framework of
    a value system, he simply didn't know what to do
    with the issue. That's because character is, at
    heart, a value-based concept.

    We tend to forget that an internally consistent
    psychoanalysis, as Freud created it, is
    essentially an amoral, value-free philosophy.
    Psychoanalysis is valuable as a method of
    treatment, but it has limited applicability; it
    cannot be taken as the fundamental basis for
    man's world view.

    Then the Self-Psychology School came along in
    the '60's, coalescing around the work of
    psychoanalyst Heinz Kohut. He was the prime mover
    in developing a theory related to self-esteem in
    the psychoanalytic world, and others built upon
    his work.

    Kohut came up with the notion that we all have a
    blueprint for a preexisting self which we have an
    obligation to discover. His ideas crossed over
    into the popular psychology of the Human
    Potential Movement led by Rogers and Maslow, and
    there followed a huge interest in finding that
    preexisting identity.

    But the whole Human Potential and Self-Psychology
    Movement fell victim to the serpent's promise--
    "Ye shall be as gods!"

    Soon society began to view narcissism--in
    whatever form--as healthy, and began to deny that
    humility, modesty and self-sacrifice were really
    virtues.

    We began to believe that we have no obligation to
    live by any set of absolute standards of good and
    evil--we could choose our own. We convinced
    ourselves that self-fulfillment, self-
    actualization, self-realization, and so on was
    the highest standard of good. But it is an
    ancient truth that indeed we must live by
    standards that are outside of ourselves and which
    may, at times, conflict with our own
    natural "blueprints."

    History has taught us that any other course will
    lead us to destruction. For if we imagine that
    nature and human effort and good intentions are
    good enough, it will soon be undeniable that the
    result is evil.

    Q: Should the American Psychiatric Association
    have de-pathologized homosexuality?

    A: In some ways I think the psychiatric
    establishment was right--homosexuality is not a
    disease the way that, say, pneumonia or cancer or
    schizophrenia are diseases. Homosexuality makes a
    certain kind of sense as an understandable
    adaptation to some types of life circumstances.
    If you grow up in a Cosa Nostra family, it makes
    sense to be a sociopath. By the same token, it's
    profoundly confusing to label the sociopathic
    responses, of, say, war orphans as "disordered"
    when a war orphan must become a sociopath in
    order to survive; if he fails to, he may die. So,
    under the circumstances of war, which response
    is "healthier"--that is to say, "adaptive"?

    Homosexuality, too, is a method of adapting to
    adverse circumstances. But like sociopathy, it
    exacts a cost in terms of constrictions in
    relationships.

    There are many psychological "illnesses" which
    cannot be adequately or convincingly explained
    using the medical model of psychiatry. Being
    homosexual is not like having a tumor. We should
    throw out the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual
    and start carefully rethinking all of these so-
    called illnesses. Right now, the DSM is mostly a
    collection of problems labeled illnesses because
    they are simply consensually undesirable within
    our present culture. But at base, they are really
    issues of values, philosophy, and character.

    How can we "prove" to the psychiatric
    establishment that homosexuality is
    psychologically unhealthy? When we tried to
    defend the idea that homosexuality is a disorder
    as evidenced by the higher associated suicide
    rate, gay activists said that the suicide was not
    due to the inherently dissatisfying nature of the
    condition--it was due to the stresses of
    homophobia. When we point to the high level of
    gay promiscuity, they said we were using a
    narrow, "heterosexist" and outdated definition of
    promiscuity. Gays could be emotionally faithful
    to one partner, they argued, while being sexually
    active with many partners.

    And you can't get around those arguments unless
    you're actually willing to say that promiscuity
    is an inferior way of life. You need to be able
    to say that some certain standard is better.

    If we can't settle on a shared higher vision,
    then it's amazing what we must be prepared to
    accept. For example, there is actually a growing
    body of literature in sexological journals
    arguing that the psychological and emotional
    benefits of promiscuity more than outweigh the
    risks to life from AIDS.

    So that is the fundamental flaw of psychology--it
    is meaningless without the backdrop of a
    framework of values.

    There I believe homosexuality--like narcissism--
    is best viewed as a spiritual and moral illness.

    Now psychology as a discipline must step up to
    the table and accept responsibility for the
    extent to which it has been propagating an amoral
    ethos. Dostoevsky put it best in The Grand
    Inquisitor: "Without God, everything is
    permissible."

    Dr. Satinover's new book Homosexuality and the
    Politics of Truth is available from Hamewith
    Distributors (203) 221-0031.


    Copyright © NARTH. All Rights Reserved.

    Updated: 5 February 2001

    Vuodatus lienee kierrellyt netissä jo kauan, kun
    lääketieteelliseen kirjallisuuteen tehdyt
    (harvat) viittaukset ovat kymmenen vuotta vanhoja.

    --> Ei kannata lukea läpi, koska ei täytä
    muodollisia kriteerejä.

    Äänestä

  • PEK kirjoitti:

    Vuodatus lienee kierrellyt netissä jo kauan, kun
    lääketieteelliseen kirjallisuuteen tehdyt
    (harvat) viittaukset ovat kymmenen vuotta vanhoja.

    --> Ei kannata lukea läpi, koska ei täytä
    muodollisia kriteerejä.

    Heität hämäystä, viittauksissa on aivan tuoretta
    tietoa. Miksi Fakta olisi vain päivämääristä
    kiinni?
    Oletko ollut Stasin kouluttaja?
    Aiheena: Miten aivopestä totuus pois ihmisten
    ulottuvilta.

    Äänestä

> Fags live filthy, unhealty, dangerous, unhappy,
and in many cases, violent lives.

Ensimmäinen lause kertoo kaiken tarvittavan. Kuten joku sanoi aiemmin: jos haluatte sumuttaa niin voisitte edes kunnioittaa sumutettavien kielitaitoa ja älykkyyttä. Säälittävää.

Äänestä
  • Kuten jo aikaisemmin mainitsin, en ole missään
    vaiheessa vedonnut jonkun yksittäisen ryhmän tai
    seurakunnan, kuten Babtistien auktoriteettiin,
    vaan yleisesti tunnustettuihin julkaisuihin. Se
    että poimin joitakin sivuja epäasiallisilta ja
    provosoivilta sivuilta, ei tee tyhjäksi niiden
    käyttämiä lähdeviitteitä. En liiemmin ole
    sortunut valikoivaan lähde valintaan, vaan
    nimenomaan peräänkuulutan avointa keskustelua.
    Näyttää siltä että juuri homoseksuaalisuuden
    puolesta puhujilla on vaikea hyväksyä
    toisinajattelevia. Vedotaan mieluusti
    homoseksuaalisuuden geneettisyyteen, yms
    populaari tieteellisiin muoti-ilmiöihin. Kuinka
    monta lehtiartikkelia olette lukeneet esim.
    Hesarista, jossa annetaan avoin puheenvuoro
    jollekin arvostetulle taholle joka uskoo että
    homoseksuaalisuus ei ole välttämätöntä ja siitä
    voi parantua jos niin haluaa ?

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Kuten jo aikaisemmin mainitsin, en ole missään
    vaiheessa vedonnut jonkun yksittäisen ryhmän tai
    seurakunnan, kuten Babtistien auktoriteettiin,
    vaan yleisesti tunnustettuihin julkaisuihin. Se
    että poimin joitakin sivuja epäasiallisilta ja
    provosoivilta sivuilta, ei tee tyhjäksi niiden
    käyttämiä lähdeviitteitä. En liiemmin ole
    sortunut valikoivaan lähde valintaan, vaan
    nimenomaan peräänkuulutan avointa keskustelua.
    Näyttää siltä että juuri homoseksuaalisuuden
    puolesta puhujilla on vaikea hyväksyä
    toisinajattelevia. Vedotaan mieluusti
    homoseksuaalisuuden geneettisyyteen, yms
    populaari tieteellisiin muoti-ilmiöihin. Kuinka
    monta lehtiartikkelia olette lukeneet esim.
    Hesarista, jossa annetaan avoin puheenvuoro
    jollekin arvostetulle taholle joka uskoo että
    homoseksuaalisuus ei ole välttämätöntä ja siitä
    voi parantua jos niin haluaa ?

    Mikä julkaisu ei olisi yleisesti tunnustettu? Heh.

    Et peräänkuuluta vaan tukeudut tietyntyyppisiin
    lähteisiin. Tätä ei voi kierrellä loputtomiin.
    Toiseksi turvautuminen NARTHin ja babtistikirkon
    julkaisuihin, joista kumpaankin on valikoivasti
    käytetty tietyn tyyppisiä lähteitä, ei tee sinua
    uskottavammaksi.

    Sinuun ei kannata tuhlata aikaa.
    Homoseksuaalisuudesta ei parannuta, sillä
    kyseessä ei ole sairaus. Olet propagandasi
    sokaiseva.

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Kuten jo aikaisemmin mainitsin, en ole missään
    vaiheessa vedonnut jonkun yksittäisen ryhmän tai
    seurakunnan, kuten Babtistien auktoriteettiin,
    vaan yleisesti tunnustettuihin julkaisuihin. Se
    että poimin joitakin sivuja epäasiallisilta ja
    provosoivilta sivuilta, ei tee tyhjäksi niiden
    käyttämiä lähdeviitteitä. En liiemmin ole
    sortunut valikoivaan lähde valintaan, vaan
    nimenomaan peräänkuulutan avointa keskustelua.
    Näyttää siltä että juuri homoseksuaalisuuden
    puolesta puhujilla on vaikea hyväksyä
    toisinajattelevia. Vedotaan mieluusti
    homoseksuaalisuuden geneettisyyteen, yms
    populaari tieteellisiin muoti-ilmiöihin. Kuinka
    monta lehtiartikkelia olette lukeneet esim.
    Hesarista, jossa annetaan avoin puheenvuoro
    jollekin arvostetulle taholle joka uskoo että
    homoseksuaalisuus ei ole välttämätöntä ja siitä
    voi parantua jos niin haluaa ?

    Mikä julkaisu ei olisi yleisesti tunnustettu? Heh.

    Et peräänkuuluta vaan tukeudut tietyntyyppisiin
    lähteisiin. Tätä ei voi kierrellä loputtomiin.
    Toiseksi turvautuminen NARTHin ja babtistikirkon
    julkaisuihin, joista kumpaankin on valikoivasti
    käytetty tietyn tyyppisiä lähteitä, ei tee sinua
    uskottavammaksi.

    Sinuun ei kannata tuhlata aikaa.
    Homoseksuaalisuudesta ei parannuta, sillä
    kyseessä ei ole sairaus. Olet propagandasi
    sokaisema.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    Mikä julkaisu ei olisi yleisesti tunnustettu? Heh.

    Et peräänkuuluta vaan tukeudut tietyntyyppisiin
    lähteisiin. Tätä ei voi kierrellä loputtomiin.
    Toiseksi turvautuminen NARTHin ja babtistikirkon
    julkaisuihin, joista kumpaankin on valikoivasti
    käytetty tietyn tyyppisiä lähteitä, ei tee sinua
    uskottavammaksi.

    Sinuun ei kannata tuhlata aikaa.
    Homoseksuaalisuudesta ei parannuta, sillä
    kyseessä ei ole sairaus. Olet propagandasi
    sokaiseva.

    Lie

    Homoseksualismi on synti, siinä olet oikeassa
    että sairaus se ei ole.
    Koska Rakas Jumala ei tuomitse sairaita
    helvettiin vaan synnintekijät,joita homot ovat.
    Raamatussa käytetään nimeä miehimykset homoista.

    Äänestä

  • lie kirjoitti:

    Mikä julkaisu ei olisi yleisesti tunnustettu? Heh.

    Et peräänkuuluta vaan tukeudut tietyntyyppisiin
    lähteisiin. Tätä ei voi kierrellä loputtomiin.
    Toiseksi turvautuminen NARTHin ja babtistikirkon
    julkaisuihin, joista kumpaankin on valikoivasti
    käytetty tietyn tyyppisiä lähteitä, ei tee sinua
    uskottavammaksi.

    Sinuun ei kannata tuhlata aikaa.
    Homoseksuaalisuudesta ei parannuta, sillä
    kyseessä ei ole sairaus. Olet propagandasi
    sokaisema.

    "käytetty tietyn tyyppisiä lähteitä",eivätkö
    homojen kannattajatkin käytä tietyn tyyppisiä
    lähteitä,siis heille myönteisiä?Siis oli asia
    kuin asia niin jokainen löytää omalle kannalleen
    tukea jostakin julkaisusta.Tästä päättelen että
    kaikki julkaisut ovat joko oikeassa tai sitten
    hölynpölyä.Kuka todistaa minkään
    oikeudellisuutta,ei kukaan,kaikki on jotakin
    mieltä,ei ole puolueetonta olemassa.Jokaisella
    ihmisellä on mielipide asioista,ei silloin voi
    olla puolueeton.

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Kuten jo aikaisemmin mainitsin, en ole missään
    vaiheessa vedonnut jonkun yksittäisen ryhmän tai
    seurakunnan, kuten Babtistien auktoriteettiin,
    vaan yleisesti tunnustettuihin julkaisuihin. Se
    että poimin joitakin sivuja epäasiallisilta ja
    provosoivilta sivuilta, ei tee tyhjäksi niiden
    käyttämiä lähdeviitteitä. En liiemmin ole
    sortunut valikoivaan lähde valintaan, vaan
    nimenomaan peräänkuulutan avointa keskustelua.
    Näyttää siltä että juuri homoseksuaalisuuden
    puolesta puhujilla on vaikea hyväksyä
    toisinajattelevia. Vedotaan mieluusti
    homoseksuaalisuuden geneettisyyteen, yms
    populaari tieteellisiin muoti-ilmiöihin. Kuinka
    monta lehtiartikkelia olette lukeneet esim.
    Hesarista, jossa annetaan avoin puheenvuoro
    jollekin arvostetulle taholle joka uskoo että
    homoseksuaalisuus ei ole välttämätöntä ja siitä
    voi parantua jos niin haluaa ?

    Toivottavasti et ihan oikeasti ole tohtori,
    ainakaan lääketieteen ja kirurgian... tai taisi
    opiskeluaika mennä enemmän LKS:n riennoissa.

    Vertaisarvioituihin lähteisiin vetoava dokumetti
    ei itse ole vertaisarvioitu eikä prestiisi siirry
    siihen lähteiden kautta. Se ei siis voi olla
    lähteidensä ansiosta luotettava.

    Toisin sanoen: kun vetoaa dokumenttiin, vetoaa
    siihen dokumenttiin, johon vetoaa, ei sen
    lähdeviitteisiin. Muutenhan jouduttaisiin
    kestämättömään tilanteeseen, kun dokumentille
    kuin dokumentille voisi kasata prestiisiä
    viittauksilla arvovaltaisiin lähteisiin. Käsillä
    olevassa tapauksessa ei ole mitään takuuta siitä,
    että lähteet ovat (a) olemassa, (b) relevantteja
    ja (c) oikein tulkittuja.

    Referee-vaatimus koskee myös katsauksia.

    Parisuhdelakikeksustelun aikana mm. eräs
    vastustava kansanedustaja, joka nimenomaan
    korosti akateemista koulutustaan, loisti
    ilmoittamalla tuekseen lähdeviitteitä, joissa ei
    ollut mitään tolkkua...

    Äänestä

  • Alkeistietoa kirjoitti:

    Toivottavasti et ihan oikeasti ole tohtori,
    ainakaan lääketieteen ja kirurgian... tai taisi
    opiskeluaika mennä enemmän LKS:n riennoissa.

    Vertaisarvioituihin lähteisiin vetoava dokumetti
    ei itse ole vertaisarvioitu eikä prestiisi siirry
    siihen lähteiden kautta. Se ei siis voi olla
    lähteidensä ansiosta luotettava.

    Toisin sanoen: kun vetoaa dokumenttiin, vetoaa
    siihen dokumenttiin, johon vetoaa, ei sen
    lähdeviitteisiin. Muutenhan jouduttaisiin
    kestämättömään tilanteeseen, kun dokumentille
    kuin dokumentille voisi kasata prestiisiä
    viittauksilla arvovaltaisiin lähteisiin. Käsillä
    olevassa tapauksessa ei ole mitään takuuta siitä,
    että lähteet ovat (a) olemassa, (b) relevantteja
    ja (c) oikein tulkittuja.

    Referee-vaatimus koskee myös katsauksia.

    Parisuhdelakikeksustelun aikana mm. eräs
    vastustava kansanedustaja, joka nimenomaan
    korosti akateemista koulutustaan, loisti
    ilmoittamalla tuekseen lähdeviitteitä, joissa ei
    ollut mitään tolkkua...

    KIrjoituksessa on nimenomaan annettu
    lähdeviitteet joista voi kuka tahansa mennä
    katsomaan koko tutkimuksen.
    Näyttää siltä että koet affektin tässä asiassa.
    Siksi käyttäytymisesi on absurdi ja et voi ottaa
    faktoja tosissasi vaan hyökkäät niitä vastaan.
    Kritiikkisi on intiimin käyttäytymisesi (ehkä
    homous) takia abnormi. Siveetön elämäntapa
    hämärtää totuuden ymmärtämistä ja omistamista
    jota homouskin on.
    Jopa heidän tieto siitä että he voivat infektoida
    tätä infernaalista tautia muihin, ei estä heidän
    käyttäytymistään.
    Heidän moraalinsa on lähes samalla tasolla kuin
    murhaajien, vaikka tietävät käyttäytymisensä
    seuraukset. Aidsin levittäminen on hiljaista
    murhaamista, jolta yksikään homo ei voi olla
    varjeltu

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    KIrjoituksessa on nimenomaan annettu
    lähdeviitteet joista voi kuka tahansa mennä
    katsomaan koko tutkimuksen.
    Näyttää siltä että koet affektin tässä asiassa.
    Siksi käyttäytymisesi on absurdi ja et voi ottaa
    faktoja tosissasi vaan hyökkäät niitä vastaan.
    Kritiikkisi on intiimin käyttäytymisesi (ehkä
    homous) takia abnormi. Siveetön elämäntapa
    hämärtää totuuden ymmärtämistä ja omistamista
    jota homouskin on.
    Jopa heidän tieto siitä että he voivat infektoida
    tätä infernaalista tautia muihin, ei estä heidän
    käyttäytymistään.
    Heidän moraalinsa on lähes samalla tasolla kuin
    murhaajien, vaikka tietävät käyttäytymisensä
    seuraukset. Aidsin levittäminen on hiljaista
    murhaamista, jolta yksikään homo ei voi olla
    varjeltu

    Miten nyt saisin tämän selitettyä:

    Lähteen yleinen hyväksyttyys ei tee lähteen
    käyttäjätekstistä hyväksyttyä.

    Relevantin ja korrektin tiedon käyttö on tekstin
    relevanssin ja korrektiuden välttämätön
    _muttei_riittävä_ ehto.

    Lähdeviite ei tee mistään
    tekstistä 'tieteellistä', vaan se, että teksti
    julkaistaan referee-menettelyä noudattavalla
    foorumilla.

    Julkaisun kirjoittajalla ei ole - eikä tietenkään
    voikaan olla - vastuuta siitä, kuka häneen
    viittaa ja missä yhteydessä ja mistä
    tarkoitusperistä. Mikä tahansa Flat Earth Society
    voi hilpeästi viittailla astronomiseen
    tutkimustietoon, mutta entä sitten?

    Äänestä

  • PEK kirjoitti:

    Miten nyt saisin tämän selitettyä:

    Lähteen yleinen hyväksyttyys ei tee lähteen
    käyttäjätekstistä hyväksyttyä.

    Relevantin ja korrektin tiedon käyttö on tekstin
    relevanssin ja korrektiuden välttämätön
    _muttei_riittävä_ ehto.

    Lähdeviite ei tee mistään
    tekstistä 'tieteellistä', vaan se, että teksti
    julkaistaan referee-menettelyä noudattavalla
    foorumilla.

    Julkaisun kirjoittajalla ei ole - eikä tietenkään
    voikaan olla - vastuuta siitä, kuka häneen
    viittaa ja missä yhteydessä ja mistä
    tarkoitusperistä. Mikä tahansa Flat Earth Society
    voi hilpeästi viittailla astronomiseen
    tutkimustietoon, mutta entä sitten?

    Siis tarkoitat sitä, että ko tutkimus jossa on
    tieteellisesti todistetut faktat, eivät pidä
    paikkaansa kun sitä lainaa sellainen taho johon
    et koet empatiaa vaan vihamielisyyttä.

    Siksi haluat tehdä siitä indifferenttisen tahon.

    voisin jopa sanoa tämän putkinäköisyyden olevan
    jotenkin imbesilli käytös.
    Voiko edes tällaisen väritetyn näkökannan omaavan
    henkilön kanssa käydä edes järkevää keskustelua?
    Koska selvät tieteelliset tosiasiat lakaistaan
    maton alle ja päämäärä ajaa totuuden ohi.

    Äänestä

  • Tohtori x kirjoitti:

    Siis tarkoitat sitä, että ko tutkimus jossa on
    tieteellisesti todistetut faktat, eivät pidä
    paikkaansa kun sitä lainaa sellainen taho johon
    et koet empatiaa vaan vihamielisyyttä.

    Siksi haluat tehdä siitä indifferenttisen tahon.

    voisin jopa sanoa tämän putkinäköisyyden olevan
    jotenkin imbesilli käytös.
    Voiko edes tällaisen väritetyn näkökannan omaavan
    henkilön kanssa käydä edes järkevää keskustelua?
    Koska selvät tieteelliset tosiasiat lakaistaan
    maton alle ja päämäärä ajaa totuuden ohi.

    Tutkimus, joka ei ole ilmestynyt tieteellisellä
    foorumilla, ei ole tieteellinen.

    Jostakin syystä lähdeluettelo on kovin
    samannäköinen kuin esim.
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~akc/index13.html
    Lisävinkki: mene sivulle
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~akc/ , paina enter, ja
    katso, mihin osoitteeseen joudut. Q.E.D...

    Mutta varmemmaksi vakuudeksi voimme katsoa hieman
    läpi tätä niin sanottua "lähdeluetteloa".

    (1) Advocate, 1985.

    Kommentti: Advocate on lehti. Kausijulkaisussa
    ilmestyneestä aineistosta ilmoitetaan tekijä,
    artikkelin otsikko sekä täsmällisesti se, missä
    numerossa se on ilmestynyt. Tuon "viitteen"
    tarkistaminen vaatisi koko vuoiskerran lukemista
    ilman mitään tietoa siitä, minkä numeron missä
    artikkelissa ko. tieto on. Yhtä hyvin viite voi
    olla tekaistu.

    (2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American
    Psychiatry.

    Kommentti: Bayer esittää tiedepoliittista
    kritiikkiä, muttei ole sairausluokituksen
    poistamista vastaan. Häntä on siteerattu
    epäkorrektisti.

    (4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random
    Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985,
    70, pp. 292-299.

    Paul Cameron on on saavuttanut kuolemattomuuden
    törpöillä tutkimusasetelmillaan, ks. esim.
    http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/Rainbow/html/facts_c
    ameron.html
    Kuinka ollakaan, hra Cameron johtaa Family
    Reserach Institutea, ks. (7)

    (7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

    Kommentti: Jäljet johtavat sylttytehtaalle. Tämä
    ei ole mikään "perhetutkimuksen laitos" vaan
    USA:n uskonnollisen äärioikeiston lobbausjärjestö.

    Mutta vaikka kyseessä olisi kuinka kunnioitettu
    laitos: laitoksen nimi EI ole lähdeviite. Miten
    kuvittelet minun "tarkistavan" lähteen, jos
    viitteenä on vaikkapa "Helsingin yliopisto"???

    (8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity
    Normal?" Marietta, GA.

    Kommentti: Siis? Onko Marietta kaupunki, lehden
    nimi vai mikä? Jos se on julkaisu, mikä vuosi,
    mikä numero jne. Täsyin hyödytön pseudoviite.

    (15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

    Kommentti: Morton-Hunt Study? Kuka, mitä, missä,
    milloin?

    (19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

    Psychological Reports on kuuluisa naurettavan
    alhaisista impaktifaktoreistaan. Se on toisin
    sanoen viimesijainen julkaisupaikka, jossa
    julkaistaan se, mikä ei muualle kelpaa.

    (21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We
    Talk."

    Kommentti: Jälleen yksi täysin käsittämätön
    viite. Mitä pitäisi etsiä? Kirjaa, lehteä?

    (24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

    Kommentti: Onpas taas täsmällinen viite. Katselin
    läpi U.S. Census Bureaun verkossa olevia
    tilastoja, mutta ei sieltä kyllä
    elinodotustilastoista mitään tuollaista tietoa
    löytynyt. Jos ilmoitat ystävällisesti tarkemmin,
    mistä kohtaa ao. tieto löytyy, voin kommentoida
    lähemmin.

    (26) United States Census Bureau

    Kommentti: Sama juttu, ei jonkun viraston nimen
    mainitsemista ole tuon taivaallista hyötyä.
    Julkaisu ja sivunnumero, tack.

    (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29,
    1989.

    Kommentti: Ja kuinkahan paljon Yhdysvaltain
    kongressi tuottaa paperia päivän aikana. Ei ole
    tarkoitus, että kukaan joutuu kahlaamaan sitä
    kaikkea läpi. Tarkemmin, kiitos.

    (28) University of Chicago's Nation Research
    Corp.

    Kommentti: taas instituution nimi. Hoh hoijaa,,,

    (30) Reuters, Feb. 5, 2001

    jokainen voi hetken kuvitella mielessään, kuinka
    monta uutista kansainväliset uutistoimistot
    välittävät päivittäin. Ei kukaan tosissaan usko,
    että jonkin tiedosirun voisi löytää jälkikäteen
    päivän perusteella? Sitä paitsi uutistoimistot
    välittävät uutisia, mm. tiedeuutisia
    tutkimuksista. Pitäisi viitata tutkimukseen, ei
    uutiseen siitä.

    (31) Center for Disease Control

    Kommentti: Laitoksen nimi. Hyödytön.

    (32) Associated Press, April 25, 2001

    Kommentti Vrt. Reuters, no 30.

    Loput viitteet ainakin näyttävät oikeilta;
    siitäkään ei tietenkään voi olla varma.

    Jossakin vaiheessa sanoit, ettei tutkimus
    vanhene. No, molemmat lienemme oikeassa.
    Aristoteles on edelleen kova sana, mutta kyllä
    minä vähän miettisin, jos kirurgi kertoisi ennen
    leikkausta, ettei ole oppinut mitään uutta
    viimeiseen kymmeneen vuoteen. Lääketiede on
    tyypillisesti ala, jossa tieto vanhenee nopeasti.

    Koska lähteet ovat vanhoja, niitä on hankala
    tarkistaa; elektronisissa tietokannoissa noin
    vanha materiaali ei ole saatavissa. En aio juosta
    niitä Terkossa tutkimassa, enkä usko että
    sinäkään olet tehnyt sitä.

    Siihen ei kuitenkaan ole mitään syytä. Edellä
    kuvatut virheellisesti muodostetut lähdeviitteet
    riittävät osoittamaan, ettei sepustajalla ole
    edellytyksiä lukea ja käyttää lähteitä oikein.

    Mainittakoon nyt kuriositeettina: todisteena
    homojen yleisestä taipumuksesta pedofiliaan
    mainitaan, että 73%:lla homoista on ollut alle 19-
    vuotias partneri. Jokainen voi itse tykönään
    miettiä, miten samalla tavalla voi helposti
    todistaa useimmat heterotkin pedofiileiksi.

    Tämän verran nyt innostuin aiheesta. Useimmille
    sepustuksen arvottomuus varmaan nyt selvisi jo
    aiemmin.

    Äänestä

  • PEK kirjoitti:

    Tutkimus, joka ei ole ilmestynyt tieteellisellä
    foorumilla, ei ole tieteellinen.

    Jostakin syystä lähdeluettelo on kovin
    samannäköinen kuin esim.
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~akc/index13.html
    Lisävinkki: mene sivulle
    http://home.hiwaay.net/~akc/ , paina enter, ja
    katso, mihin osoitteeseen joudut. Q.E.D...

    Mutta varmemmaksi vakuudeksi voimme katsoa hieman
    läpi tätä niin sanottua "lähdeluetteloa".

    (1) Advocate, 1985.

    Kommentti: Advocate on lehti. Kausijulkaisussa
    ilmestyneestä aineistosta ilmoitetaan tekijä,
    artikkelin otsikko sekä täsmällisesti se, missä
    numerossa se on ilmestynyt. Tuon "viitteen"
    tarkistaminen vaatisi koko vuoiskerran lukemista
    ilman mitään tietoa siitä, minkä numeron missä
    artikkelissa ko. tieto on. Yhtä hyvin viite voi
    olla tekaistu.

    (2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American
    Psychiatry.

    Kommentti: Bayer esittää tiedepoliittista
    kritiikkiä, muttei ole sairausluokituksen
    poistamista vastaan. Häntä on siteerattu
    epäkorrektisti.

    (4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random
    Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985,
    70, pp. 292-299.

    Paul Cameron on on saavuttanut kuolemattomuuden
    törpöillä tutkimusasetelmillaan, ks. esim.
    http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/Rainbow/html/facts_c
    ameron.html
    Kuinka ollakaan, hra Cameron johtaa Family
    Reserach Institutea, ks. (7)

    (7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

    Kommentti: Jäljet johtavat sylttytehtaalle. Tämä
    ei ole mikään "perhetutkimuksen laitos" vaan
    USA:n uskonnollisen äärioikeiston lobbausjärjestö.

    Mutta vaikka kyseessä olisi kuinka kunnioitettu
    laitos: laitoksen nimi EI ole lähdeviite. Miten
    kuvittelet minun "tarkistavan" lähteen, jos
    viitteenä on vaikkapa "Helsingin yliopisto"???

    (8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity
    Normal?" Marietta, GA.

    Kommentti: Siis? Onko Marietta kaupunki, lehden
    nimi vai mikä? Jos se on julkaisu, mikä vuosi,
    mikä numero jne. Täsyin hyödytön pseudoviite.

    (15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

    Kommentti: Morton-Hunt Study? Kuka, mitä, missä,
    milloin?

    (19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

    Psychological Reports on kuuluisa naurettavan
    alhaisista impaktifaktoreistaan. Se on toisin
    sanoen viimesijainen julkaisupaikka, jossa
    julkaistaan se, mikä ei muualle kelpaa.

    (21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We
    Talk."

    Kommentti: Jälleen yksi täysin käsittämätön
    viite. Mitä pitäisi etsiä? Kirjaa, lehteä?

    (24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

    Kommentti: Onpas taas täsmällinen viite. Katselin
    läpi U.S. Census Bureaun verkossa olevia
    tilastoja, mutta ei sieltä kyllä
    elinodotustilastoista mitään tuollaista tietoa
    löytynyt. Jos ilmoitat ystävällisesti tarkemmin,
    mistä kohtaa ao. tieto löytyy, voin kommentoida
    lähemmin.

    (26) United States Census Bureau

    Kommentti: Sama juttu, ei jonkun viraston nimen
    mainitsemista ole tuon taivaallista hyötyä.
    Julkaisu ja sivunnumero, tack.

    (27) United States Congressional Record, June 29,
    1989.

    Kommentti: Ja kuinkahan paljon Yhdysvaltain
    kongressi tuottaa paperia päivän aikana. Ei ole
    tarkoitus, että kukaan joutuu kahlaamaan sitä
    kaikkea läpi. Tarkemmin, kiitos.

    (28) University of Chicago's Nation Research
    Corp.

    Kommentti: taas instituution nimi. Hoh hoijaa,,,

    (30) Reuters, Feb. 5, 2001

    jokainen voi hetken kuvitella mielessään, kuinka
    monta uutista kansainväliset uutistoimistot
    välittävät päivittäin. Ei kukaan tosissaan usko,
    että jonkin tiedosirun voisi löytää jälkikäteen
    päivän perusteella? Sitä paitsi uutistoimistot
    välittävät uutisia, mm. tiedeuutisia
    tutkimuksista. Pitäisi viitata tutkimukseen, ei
    uutiseen siitä.

    (31) Center for Disease Control

    Kommentti: Laitoksen nimi. Hyödytön.

    (32) Associated Press, April 25, 2001

    Kommentti Vrt. Reuters, no 30.

    Loput viitteet ainakin näyttävät oikeilta;
    siitäkään ei tietenkään voi olla varma.

    Jossakin vaiheessa sanoit, ettei tutkimus
    vanhene. No, molemmat lienemme oikeassa.
    Aristoteles on edelleen kova sana, mutta kyllä
    minä vähän miettisin, jos kirurgi kertoisi ennen
    leikkausta, ettei ole oppinut mitään uutta
    viimeiseen kymmeneen vuoteen. Lääketiede on
    tyypillisesti ala, jossa tieto vanhenee nopeasti.

    Koska lähteet ovat vanhoja, niitä on hankala
    tarkistaa; elektronisissa tietokannoissa noin
    vanha materiaali ei ole saatavissa. En aio juosta
    niitä Terkossa tutkimassa, enkä usko että
    sinäkään olet tehnyt sitä.

    Siihen ei kuitenkaan ole mitään syytä. Edellä
    kuvatut virheellisesti muodostetut lähdeviitteet
    riittävät osoittamaan, ettei sepustajalla ole
    edellytyksiä lukea ja käyttää lähteitä oikein.

    Mainittakoon nyt kuriositeettina: todisteena
    homojen yleisestä taipumuksesta pedofiliaan
    mainitaan, että 73%:lla homoista on ollut alle 19-
    vuotias partneri. Jokainen voi itse tykönään
    miettiä, miten samalla tavalla voi helposti
    todistaa useimmat heterotkin pedofiileiksi.

    Tämän verran nyt innostuin aiheesta. Useimmille
    sepustuksen arvottomuus varmaan nyt selvisi jo
    aiemmin.

    Arvoisa PEK,
    Sunnuntaina en kiireessä kerinnyt vastaamaan
    oikeutettuun kritiikkiisi. Aineisto on esitetty
    lähinnä provosoivassa mielessä ja tapa jolla
    aineisto on esitetty, ei täytä tieteellisen
    tutkimuksen kriteerejä. En todellakaan odottanut
    että saisin näin korkeatasoista kritiikkiä.
    Yleensä tulee pissa ja kakka juttuja. Kuitenkin
    väittäisin, että keskustelu meidän maassa
    tässäkin kysymyksessä on käyty varsin alhaisella
    tasolla. Me emme voi kieltää sitä todellisuutta
    niistä sadoista homoista, jotka kokevat
    seksuaalisuutensa ahdistavana ja pakonomaisena,
    enkä nyt tarkoita, että nämä kaikki olisivat
    ahdistuneita sosiaalisen paineen vuoksi ja
    nimenomaisen yhteiskunnan hyväksynnän puutteen
    vuoksi, vaan että he kokevat itse olevansa
    vankilassa. Emme voi kieltää näiltä ihmisiltä
    oikeutta pyrkiä heteroiksi, jos he kokevat
    seksuaalisuutensa ahdistavana ja pakonomaisena.
    (Näitähän on myös heteroissa, mutta se ei ole
    mikään argumentti). www.narth.org vastaa
    mielestäni hyvinkin tieteellistä foorumia ja
    tutkimusta. En muista mainitsinko tätä eilen.
    Sivu jolta eilen poimin materiaalin oli
    todellakin useilta kohdin puutteellinen ja
    kirjoitettu väärällä asenteella, ei sillä
    rakkaudella joka meillä kristityillä tulee olla
    kaikkia ihmisiä kohtaan. www.godhatesfags.com ei
    edusta kristillisyyttä siinä mielessä mitä
    raamattu ilmoittaa, vaan ryhmä on eräällä tavalla
    hairahtunut ja äärimmäisyyksiin taipuvainen.
    Heidän materiaalinsa on usein poimittu ulos
    asiayhteydestä ja siirretty uuteen yhteyteen,
    missä se palvelee heidän etujaan. Ajattelinkin
    tässä näin yksinkertaisesti vastata esittämääsi
    kritiikkiin ja pyydän huomiomaan että maailma on
    pullollaan tutkimusta joka on aiheellista ottaa
    huomioon tässäkin asiassa. www.narth.org sivuilta
    löytyy mm. tasokas artikkeli nimellä "Conversion
    Therapy revisited: parameters and rationale for
    ethical care". Artikkeli on varustettu
    asianmukaisine lähdeviitteineen.

    Äänestä

Wikipediasta löytyi tällainen tieto:
"Kirkon johtaja on Fred Phelps. Itse ryhmään kuuluu 70–150 henkeä, joista useimmat lienevät Phelpsin yhdeksän vielä puheväleissä olevan lapsen perheenjäseniä ja hänen lapsenlapsiaan."

RYHMÄÄN KUULUU 70 - 150 HENKILÖÄ! Joten ei tuo kovin merkittävä ryhmä ole ja kun ovat lähinnä samaan sukuun kuuluvia. Joten ryhmä on saanut kyllä reilusti julkisuutta, kokoonsa nähden. Ehkä suuren julkisuuden yksi syy on, että kristillisyyden vastustajille ja ateisteille ryhmä on ollut oikea lottovoitto.

http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboron_baptistikirkko

Vantaan Laurista löytyi seuraava maininta:
Homoja ja ruotsalaisia vihaava Westboron seurakunta kutsuu itseään baptisteiksi, mutta Yhdysvaltain muille baptisteille ryhmä on lähinnä riesa, jonka toiminnasta he ovat irtisanoutuneet täysin.

http://www.vantaanlauri.fi/arkisto/2007/2007-03-22/jkr/Jumala_on_nyt_hyvin_vihainen

Äänestä

Kommentoi aloitusta


Tohtori x kirjoitti:

Fags live filthy, unhealty, dangerous, unhappy,
and in many cases, violent lives.
MEDICAL CONSEQUENCES Of WHAT HOMOSEXUALS DO.
On April 25, 2001, the CDC reported that "We are
seeing substantial increases in sexually
transmitted diseases among men who have sex with
men in multiple locations across this country."
(31, 32).
Fags are responsible for the "first sexually
transmitted outbreak of typhoid fever" in the
history of the United States. This disease is
caused by ingesting human feces (32).
More than 10% of fags in major U.S. urban areas
are infected with HIV. To this day, they still
make up more than 50% of reported AIDS cases in
the United States (30, 31).
Fags fellate almost 100% of their sexual contacts
and ingest semen from about half of those. Semen
contains virtually every germ carried in the
blood stream, so this is about equivalent to
ingesting raw human blood (6).
One study reports 70% of fags admitting to having
sex only one time with over 50% of their partners
(3).
One study reports that the average fag has
between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The
average heterosexual has 8 partners in a
lifetime.
Sperm readily penetrates the anal wall (which is
only one cell thick) and gains direct access to
the blood stream. This causes massive
immunological damage to the body's T- and B-cell
defensive systems (14).
50% of male syphilis is carried by fags as a
rectal infection and can enter through the
urethra of another fag during anal sex (7).
Around 67-80% of fags lick and/or insert their
tongues into the anuses of their partners
(called "rimming", anilingus, fecal sex, etc.)
and ingest biologically significant amounts of
feces (7), which is the chief cause of hepatitis
and parasitic infections among fags (8). This
practice is called the "prime taste treat in sex"
in the bestseller The Joy of Gay Sex.
33% of fags admit to fisting (inserting the hand,
sometimes part of the arm, into the rectum of his
partner) (7).
Urinating on each other ("golden showers") and
torture has doubled among fags since the 1940s,
and fisting has increased astronomically (7).
17% of fags eat and/or rub the feces of their
partners on themselves (4).
12% of fags give/receive enemas as part of sexual
pleasure (4).
In one study, the average fag fellated somewhere
between 20 and 106 men, swallowed 50 seminal
discharges, had 72 penile penetrations of the
anus, and ingested feces of 23 different men
EVERY YEAR (6).
Many fag sexual encounters occur while drunk,
high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
Many fags don't pay heed to warnings of their
lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was
quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to
sexual behavior" (16).
Activities of fags involve rimming (anilingus),
golden showers, fisting, and using "toys" (21).
Fags got homosexuality removed from the list of
mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the
annual American Psychiatric Association (APA)
conference on successive years. "Guerrilla
theater tactics and more straight-forward
shouting matches characterized their presence"
(2). Since homosexuality has been removed from
the APA list of mental illnesses, so has
pedophilia (except when the adult
feels "subjective distress") (27).
Fags account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60%
of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital
admissions (other than for STDs) in the United
States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the
population.
Fags live unhealthy lifestyles, and have
historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis,
gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome"
(which attacks the intestinal tract),
tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).
73% of psychiatrists say fags are less happy than
the average person, and of those psychiatrists,
70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social
stigmatization (13).
25-33% of fags and dykes are alcoholics (11).
Of fags questioned in one study, 43% admitted to
500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admitted
to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these
people, 79% said that half of those partners were
total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts
were one night stands (or, as one fag admits in
the film "The Castro," one minute stands) (3).
Also, it is a favorite past-time of many fags to
go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex. See
www.cruisingforsex.com (NOTE: this site may
contain pornographic images - please don't go to
it if you are under age or don't want to see this
type of material. This site is referenced only
for illustrative purposes.)
78% of fags are affected by STDs (20).
Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New
York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals
account for half the murders in large cities"
(10).
Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police
says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los
Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).
50% of suicides can be attributed to fags (10).
Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist,
says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy
and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best,
will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the
sexually normal person" (10). For other
psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is
wrong, please see National Association for
Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of
each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous
lifestyle of fags, medical insurance rates have
been skyrocketing for all of us(10).
One study reports that 90% of fags have engaged
in anal sex, and 66% engage in anal sex regularly
(6).
Fags were responsible for spreading AIDS in the
United States, and then raised up violent groups
like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it.
Even today, fags account for well over 50% of the
AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a
large number considering that they account for
only 1-2% of the population.
Fags account for a disproportionate number of
hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in
Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42%
in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).
10% of fags admit to eating feces and/or drinking
contaminated enema water (8).
29% of fags engage in urine sex ("golden
showers") (8).
37% of fags engage in sadomasochism, which
accounts for many accidental deaths. In San
Francisco, classes were held to teach fags how to
not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).
In large cities, hospitals are often called on to
remove objects from the rectums of fags.
Sometimes, the fags do so much damage that they
have to wear colostomy bags for the rest of their
lives (8).
41% of fags say they have had sex with strangers
in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex
with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these
encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs
(8).
Depending on the city, 39-59% of fags are
infected with intestinal parasites like worms,
flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy
third world countries (8).
The median age of death of fags is 42 (only 9%
live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause
of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a
married heterosexual man is 75 (8).
The median age of death of dykes is 45 (only 24%
live past age 65). The median age of death of a
married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
Fags are 100 times more likely to be murdered
(usually by another fag) than the average person,
25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19
times more likely to die in a traffic accident
(8).
21% of dykes die of murder, suicide or traffic
accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher
than the number of white heterosexual females
aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).
50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer
bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., fags
beating up other fags) (18).
About 50% of the women on death row are dykes
(12).
Fags prey on children.
"Homosexuals in UK propose teaching about anal
sex to 4-year-olds"
33% of fags ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).
There is a notable fag group, consisting of
thousands of members, known as the North American
Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). (Note:
this web site is sometimes down). This is a child
molesting fag group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8
BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen
marching in most major fag parades across the
United States.
Fags commit more than 33% of all reported child
molestations in the United States, which,
assuming fags make up 2% of the population, means
that 1 in 20 fags is a child molestor, while 1 in
490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).
73% of all fags have had sex with boys under 19
years of age (9).
Many fags admit that they are pedophiles: "The
love between men and boys is at the foundation of
homosexuality" (22).
Because fags can't reproduce naturally, they
resort to recruiting children. Fags can be heard
chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT,
RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their fag parades. A group
called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on
trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE
RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other fags
aren't as overt about this, but rather try to
infiltrate society and get into positions where
they will have access to the malleable minds of
young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy
Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian
Avengers web page. Also, see AFA Action Alert.
Kinder, gentler pedophiles?
The fag agenda.
The fag agenda includes desensitizing the
public: "The first order of business is
desensitization of the American public concerning
gays and gay rights.....To desensitize the public
is to help it view homosexuality with
indifference instead of with keen emotion.
Ideally, we would have straights register
differences in sexual preferences the way they
register different tastes for ice cream or sports
games....At least in the beginning, we are
seeking public desensitization and nothing more.
We do not need and cannot expect a
full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of
homosexuality from the average American. You can
forget about trying to persuade the masses that
homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you
can get them to think that it is just another
thing...then your battle for legal and social
rights is virtually won" (25).
Part of the fag agenda is to get the public to
affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one fag
admitted in the October 1987 fag rally on
Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a
right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We
also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans
already have -- to see government and society
affirm our lives" (27).
Part of the fag agenda is to turn people from
Christianity: "The teaching that only male-female
sexual activity within the bounds and constraints
of marriage is the only acceptable form should be
reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the
Christian religion" (1).
Fags knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10%
figure (i.e., fags make up 10% of the
population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the
Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that
figure when most gay people were entirely hidden
to try to create an impression of our
numerousness" (17).
The Gay Revolutionary .
The true number of fags.
The Kinsey study of 1948, which fags often cite
to say that 10% of the population is homosexual,
actually says that only 4% of the population is
EXCLUSIVELY homosexual. This study involved a
disproportionate number of people who had been in
jail for sex crimes (hardly a random sample of
the population). Kinsey also did perverse studies
involving young boys and pedophiles.
Current research shows that the true percentage
of fags is in the 1-2% range (15,23,26,28).
Consider how small this number is when compared
to most of the numbers above.
Fags aren't discriminated against in employment,
so why should they be a protected class?
The average yearly income of a fag is $55,430.00
(most of which is disposable because no children
to take care of!). The average of the general
population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks
is $12,166.00 (24).
59.6% of fags are college graduates. 18.0% of the
general population are college graduates (24).
Too bad they aren't smart enough to listen to
God. "Professing themselves to be wise, they
became fools" (Romans 1:22).
49.0% of fags hold professional/managerial
positions. 15.9% of the general population hold
such positions (24). Where's the job
discrimination?
Sexual Orientation
A phrase that has come up recently in this earth
is "sexual orientation." This is a phrase made up
by fags to try to make themselves look less
filthy than they really are. The purpose of the
phrase is to take the spotlight from what these
perverts do, and put it on the notion that they
are just poor, mistreated people, who simply are
attracted to members of the same sex - as if they
aren't engaging in activity forbidden by God
Almighty. "Sexual orientation," as used today,
has nothing to do with sexual activity (yeah,
right), but only refers to who or what a
particular person is attracted to. If you think
that people of other "sexual orientations" are
just fine, let's see what other "sexual
orientations" you would necessarily have to
accept as wholesome and pure. If you're not going
to discriminate based on "sexual orientation",
then you must not discriminate against any of the
following. If you discriminate against any of
these, you're a hypocrite. These "sexual
orientations" are generally known
as "paraphilias", and are mental disorders - just
like homosexuality used to be (29).
Exhibitionism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by the idea of exposing their genitals to
a stranger.
Fetishism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by nonliving objects.
Frotteurism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by the idea of touching and rubbing
against a nonconsenting person.
Pedophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to prepubescent children (usually 13
years or younger).
Sexual Masochism - involves people who are
sexually aroused by being "humiliated, beaten,
bound, or otherwise made to suffer."
Sexual Sadism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by causing the psychological or physical
suffering of a victim (e.g., "restraint,
blindfolding, paddling, spanking, whipping,
pinching, beating, burning, electrical shocks,
rape, cutting, stabbing, strangulation, torture,
mutilation, or killing").
Transvestic Fetishism - involves people who are
sexually aroused by cross-dressing.
Voyeurism - involves people who are sexually
aroused by watching unsuspecting strangers have
sex.
Telephone Scatologia - involves people who are
sexually aroused by making obscene phone calls.
Necrophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to corpses.
Partialism - involves people who are sexually
attracted to exclusively one part of the body.
Zoophilia - involves people who are sexually
attracted to animals.
Coprophilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by feces.
Klismaphilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by enemas.
Urophilia - involves people who are sexually
aroused by urine.

--------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
REFERENCES
(1) Advocate, 1985.

(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American
Psychiatry.

(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a
Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York:
Simon & Schuster, 1978.

(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random
Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985,
70, pp. 292-299.

(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of
Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.

(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission
of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J.
Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.

(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.

(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity
Normal?" Marietta, GA.

(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books,
1979, p. 275.

(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern
for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.

(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay
America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987,
14(2), p. 254.

(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.

(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current
Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of
Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.

(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune
Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American
Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.

(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy

(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual
Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco."
Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.

(17) Newsweek, February 1993.

(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.

(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.

(20) Rueda, E. "The Homosexual Network." Old
Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982,
p. 53.

(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We
Talk."

(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.

(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.

(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.

(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide
Magazine. November, 1987.

(26) United States Census Bureau

(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29,
1989.

(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research
Corp.

(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental
Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric
Association, 1994.

(30) Reuters, Feb. 5, 2001

(31) Center for Disease Control

(32) Associated Press, April 25, 2001















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