missä on suomi

Tuolahan se on Australian vieressä tyynessä valtameressä.

Tässä kaikki paitsi allekirjoittaneen provosoivat kommentit ovat lainattuja internet-linkeistä. Jos ei muuta, niin herättääpä varmaan keskustelua suuntaan ja toiseen...Ainakin toivon keskustelua asiasta. Hyvä vain, jos joku saa tyrmättyä olettamukseni entisistä ajoista...

Vanhat kartat eivät varmasti ole kaikki mustaa-valkoisella, eli ei kukaan osannut 1000 vuotta sitten piirtää maisemia prikuulleen oikeaan scaalaan. Näissä linkeissä suurimmassa osassa paikat ja tapahtumat on re-scaalattu vastaamaan todellisia maisemia.

http://www.histdoc.net/history/desc1561.html

Seuraavassa artikkelissa ihme kommentti, jonka todenperäisyyttä ei liene voida koskaan todistaa.

"It is so large a country that It once was called a kingdome"

Edelleen hämmästyttää otsikko Swedland, Gotland and Finland. Olen nähnyt useita kuvia netissä vanhoista kartoista, joissa esiintyy nuo Gootit.

The Description of Swedland, Gotland, and Finland
by George North.

The description of Finland, after the authorities of Seba. Mounster.
FInlande is called a fayre Countrye, because it is more pleasaunter then Swecia. Plini seemeth to name it Finnonia, of the bowing arme or bosome of the sea Finnonicus. It is so large a Countrye, that it once was called a kyngdome, but now it hath onely the title of a Dukedome. The Sclanons in this passed age did inhabite there, whych nacion used the Grecian language, so lang as Moschus was Lorde ouer them. But now it is vnder the crown of Suecia, and doth use the rites and ceremonies of the Western Church. Muche wyne is transported thither out of Spayne, by the sea Balchic, which the people of the Country much desyreth, onely to exhillerat their myndes. The inhabitants professed Christe after the Swecians, vnder Eric then king of Swecia. This Country doth excell Suedia, in corne and grain, both for plenty and goodnes, because it is for the most part playne, and not so fenny or hylly as Swecia is.

There be trym townes in Finland, as Gusta, a towne fortified for the warres, Abo their Byshops sea, Rasburg, Wiburg, Karelia a Dukedome. Abo is not far distant from Uplandia, Viburg is situated at the extreme borders and farthest boundes of all Fynlande, towards and against the Russes and Muschouites. It is the chiefe and principal place where theyr Soldiours and Garisons do lye, that defendes and kepes those people from inuadyng the Countrye. It is also a Marte town of great trafficke, whereunto the Ruthines doo often frequent. They saye that the Northe pole dothe ryse ouer this town, aboue the horisont. 61. degrees and a halfe, and they nomber the length to be. 78. They account the degrees of Stockholme to be in breadth. 61. and in length. 64. The Finnons haue continual warres wyth the Muscouites in the arme or bosome of the sea Finnonicus: usyng in Summer the ayde of Shyppes, and in Wynter they combat upon the Ise. Howe populous was this country and others lying about it, manye great and wyse men doo wytnes, as Methodius, Martir, Jordanus, Gothus, and Paulus Diaconus, the which Aucthors do wryte that this people dyd swarme out lyke Bees. And they call these Northe Regions the Store house or Garnar of Nacions, and chieflye of them are proceded these name folowing:


Of the Countrye The Gothes.
Ostrogothes
Westrogothes.
Gepides.
Samogets.
Mallagets.
Hunes.
Amasons.
Cimbrians. The The Parthians.
Swedians.
Lõgobardiãs
Turcilingtãs.
Auarians.
Herulians.
Winulians.
Sueuians.
Bulgarians.
The The Suicers.
Taliphaliãs.
Danes.
Sclauons.
Rugiuans.
Alanians.
Burgundiãs.
Sembrians.
Liuonians. The The Scirians.
Nortmaniãs.
Pictians.
Carpians.
Caipians.
Caibians.
Cimerians.
Dacians.

The Inhabitantes of Fynland do speake twoo sundry languages. From Wiburg to Berga or Sibbena, they do for the most part speake the Sclauon tong, but near the Sea coaster they vse at thys present the Swecian language, and in the myddest of the Country, theyr proper speeche. And on the lymeth and borders, they occupy both. Wherefore in manye places their Preachers do preache and interpretate the Scriptures in bothe tounges. The Swedish language, and the same that the Gothes, the Danes, et the Norwaies do vse, is one, but that they haue sundry pronouncinges, and proper accentes in voyce. They do also agree muche wyth the Germaines, as for example suche as can speake or vnderstand the Germain tong, may here reade the Lordes prayer in the Swecian language, whereby the maye fudge the difference of their speeches.


The Lordes prayer in the
Swecian Language.
Fader vuar som er i himulum,
heiligat vuarde dit namen,
tilkomen tit rike,
sckeddin vuillige som i himulum so opo iordene,
vuar taglig brodh gif os itag
verlath os vuaren schuld so vni verlatten vuare sckuldiger,
och inledhos icke i frestilse,
vt an lo'ss i froonda. Amen.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Source: The Description of Swedland, Gotland, and Finland by George North. Facsimile print. Scholars' Facsimiles & Reprints, New York, 1946.
Originally, printed by John Awdely. London, 1561.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In modern orthography:
Finland is called a fair country, because it is more pleasant than Sweden. Plini seems to name it Finnonia, of the bowing arm or bosom of the Guld of Finland. It is so large a country, that it once was called a kingdome, but now it has only the title of a Dukedome. The Sclanons in this passed age inhabited there, which nation used the Greek language, so long as Moscow was lord over them. But now it is under the crown of Sweden, and does use the rites and ceremonies of the Western Church. Much wine is transported to there out of Spain, by the sea Baltic, which the people of the country much desires, only to exhilarate their minds. The inhabitants professed Christ after the Swedes, under Eric then king of Sweden. This country does excel Sweden, in corn and grain, both for plenty and goodness, because it is for the most part plain, and not so fenny or hilly as Sweden is.
There are trym towns in Finland, as Gusta, a town fortified for the wars, Abo their Bishops see, Raseburg, Wiburg, Karelia a Dukedome. Abo is not far distant from Upland, Viburg is situated at the extreme borders and farthest bounds of all Finland, towards and against the Russes and Muscovites. It is the chief and principal place where their soldiers and garnisons do lie, that defends and keepe those people from invading the Country. It is also a market town of great traffic, whereunto the Ruthenians do often frequent. They say that the North pole does rise over this town, above the horisont, 61. degrees and a half, and they number the length to be 78. They account the degrees of Stockholm to be in breadth 61 and in length 64. The Finns have continual wars with the Muscovites in the arm or bosom of the Guld of Finland: using in summer the aid of ships, and in Winter they combat upon the ice. How populous was this country and others lying about it, many great and wise men do witness, as Methodius, Martir, Jordanus, Gothus, and Paulus Diaconus, the which authors do write that this people did swarm out like bees. And they call these northern regions the store house or granary of nations, and chiefly of them are proceded these name following:

(list of nations)

The inhabitants of Finland do speak two sundry languages. From Wiburg to Borgå or Sibbo, they do for the most part speak the Sclauon tongue, but near the sea coast they use at this present the Swedish language, and in the middle part of the country, their proper speech. And on the 'lymeth' and borders, they occupy both. Wherefore in many places their preachers do preach and interpret the Scriptures in both tonges. The Swedish language, and the same that the Gothes, the Danes, and the Norwegians do use, is one, but that they have sundry pronouncings, and proper accents in voice. They do also have much in common with the Germans, as for example such as being able speak or understand the German tongue, may here read the Lords prayer in the Swedish language, whereby the 'maye fudge' the difference of their speeches.



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http://www.histdoc.net/history/desc1561.html
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/history_europe.html

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/german_settlements_800_1400.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/germanic_roman_486_1923.jpg

ehkä paras kaikista on tämä linkki:

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/baltics.html

Tässäkin näkyy suomalaisten kansojen levinneisyys..
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-053.jpg

GOOTTIEN LIIKKET:
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-045.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/christianity_dev_1300.jpg

Ruotsin pienuus vuonna 814 ?
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-054-055.jpg

Tässä näkyy se kummallinen Quaenland ~ Kainuunmaa, josta puhutaan aikoinaan suurena Kuningaskuntana...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/europe_814_colbeck.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd_1911/shepherd-c-058-059.jpg


Ruotsi ja Norja kasvavat suuriksi...
Valkoinen maa on valloittamatta ? Mitä aluetta mahtaa olla kyseessä ? Vieläkö on rippeitä mahdollisesta myyttisestä Suomalaisrotuisesta kuningaskunnasta ?

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediterranean_1097.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/europe_12thcentury_1884.jpg

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediterranean_1190.jpg

Tästä sitten alkaa Ruotsin ja Venäjän ruletus maassamme ainakin näiden karttojen mukaan...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_1360.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/russian_growth_1300_1796.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_mediaeval_commerce.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/europe_15th_colbeck.jpg
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/shepherd/europe_1560.jpg

Löydätte näitä nyt varmasti itsekin tästä eteenpäin...

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/map_sites/hist_sites.html


Onkohan Kalevan pojat saaneet nimensä Lontoon viereen joskus ?
http://iam.classics.unc.edu/map/download/area_b2_dload.pdf

Vuonna 380
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6200/b380.html#380

Vuonna 420
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6200/b420.html#420

Vuonna 460
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6200/b460.html#460

Vuonna 540
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/6200/b540.html#540

Lisää mielenkiintoisia sivuja:
http://alabamamaps.ua.edu/historicalmaps/europe/northern_europe/norway-sweden.html

http://www.ub.uit.no/northernlights/eng/maps00.htm
Tuolla on siis paljon muitakin historiallisia karttasivuja.

esim. vuodelta 1 ajanlaskumme alusta. Finnit eli me suomalaiset olemme tribe- Ruotsissa. On siellä ikävä kyllä Svionitkin eli Sweonit eli Swedens..

http://www.euratlas.com/time1.htm
Katso miten kaikki kehittyi näiden karttojen kertoman mukaan...
http://www.euratlas.com/time/nw0001.htm

Mutta jossain tuossa vuoden 1000 ja 1220 välillä siis menetimme vapautemme noin 700 vuodeksi.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/baltics_1000.jpg

vrt.

http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/historical/baltics_1220.jpg