Novgorodin yliherra ja venäläinen ylimysten ylimys Rurik saattoi olla suomalainen. Ruotsalaiset on jo pitkään väittänyt että Rurik veljineen oli svenssoni, veli Iivana taas on väittänyt että mitään Rurikia ei ole ollut olemassakaan ja jos on niin se ei ainakaan ollut svenssoni.
DNA tutkimukset saattavat nyt lopettaa tämän kädenväännön. DNA tekniikka on kääntänyt viisarin uuteen suuntaan. Lähes kaikki Novgorodin asukkaat olivatkin suomalaisia. Suurin osa nykyisistä Novgorodin ja Pskovin alueiden asukkaista on geneettisesti suomalaisia:
http://www.istc.ru/istc/sc.nsf/news/science-news-finns-novgorod-soil.htm
This is what geneticists from the Magadan Institute of Biological Problems of the North tell us; they have learnt that the succession of Russians from the Novgorod Oblast is most distinctive. This is brought about by the close vicinity of the Finnish-Ugorsk peoples, who, from time immemorial when the ancient population was formed, have had a noticeable influence.
Scientists conducted their research in Novgorod Veliki and the Volot settlement, on the border between the Novgorod and Pskov oblasts. They took blood samples from 80 volunteers from each populated location, Russians from the mother's side in a minimum of two generations. From the collected blood samples they isolated mitochondrial DNA and looked for genes in this DNA, which is spread among the populations of various regions of Eurasia. It transpires that individual groups of genes found in the residents of Novgorod, are a characteristic feature not of Russians, but for the Northern Finno-Ugorsk people of Eastern Europe - the Finns, Udmurts, Maris, and Komi-Zyryan.
Rurikin sukulinja hallitsi venjää vuosisatoja. Tästä linjasta on hengissä Dmitry Shahovskoj joka pitkän suostuttelun jälkeen suostui Y-DNA testiin. Testin tulos vahvistaa; Rurik kuului haploryhmään N..
http://runewsweek.ru/theme/?tid=96&rid=1568
(linkki venäjäksi, ohessa huono konekäännös)
Prince Dmitry Shahovskoj was not afraid, that DNA will show Rjurikovichej from the unexpected party. « Surprises, certainly, can be. But what it is more important - genetic or spiritual continuity? It is assured, that spiritual. Still, according to the Roman right, the father - the one who has recognized the paternity who incurs the responsibility to be the father », - lineal descendant Rjurika assured. Certainly, nobody can be assured, that all your ancestors on a parent line for 1150 all up to one were true to the husbands.
Concerning to historical sense of research - and it consisted in defining, at last, whence to Novgorod there has arrived prince Rjurik, - SHahovskoj was expressed in the same spirit: whether « Normanist I? It is wrong to divide all on normanistov or not-íîðìàíèñòîâ. When I think about Rjurikah, I think of the responsibility. Rjurikovichi became the first sluzhilymi people. They have entered into use idea of service for the blessing of Russia-Russia ».
Rjurik, its role and an origin - a subject almost the hottest and long dispute in the Russian society. It lasts two centuries and yet has not ended with a victory of any over the parties. Historians put forward different versions: Rjurik, arrived to Novgorod under « the Story of time years » in 862, could be both the Scandinavian, and the Finn, and the Balt. One more riddle - whether Rjurik has been invited (so have written down in annals in centuries after those events) or has taken authority force.
« In the beginning of XVII century in aggressive ekspansionistskih circles of Sweden struggled for tearing away at Russia of its northwest grounds with Novgorod, Rjurik and varjagi have been declared by Scandinavians, the Swedes who have introduced statehood in wild vostochnoslavjanskie of the ground », - director of Institute of the Russian history of the Russian Academy of Science Andrey Saharov is indignant known antinormanist. Under its textbooks of history the present high school - so studies, in 8-th class children learn, that « varjazhsky prince » Rjurik was the Slav.
Feature of its political career of DNA will not clear. Therefore we were limited to questions of an origin of the founder of the first Russian ruling house. If it is fair, we very much hoped for that at prince it was defined gaplogruppa I-it still name « gaplogruppoj vikings »: everywhere, where these terrible conquerors landed, they "have left" to natives this gaplogruppu. If all was so simply, questions on Scandinavian origin Rjurika almost would not remain. But to genes you will not order - and gaplogruppa Dmitry Mihajlovicha it was defined as N - in it at genetikov there were no doubts. Descendant Rjurika has remained is happy: « it is surprising, that the person from whom there were only a few mentions in the annals, now has found material features », - prince Shahovskoj speaks.
Photo: ITAR-TASSIt is the best variant for fans of detectives. This is a lot of thousand years ago gaplogruppa has arisen in Asia, has passed through Urals Mountains and Siberia and has reached coast of Northern and Baltic seas in northern Europe - in Finland and Scandinavia. Today carriers of this gaplogruppy - Finno-Ugric people and a small part of modern Swedes with Norwegians. In Russia it meets more often beyond Urals Mountains - for example, at nentsev and Yakuts. However, search on a database has shown, that in relatives at SHahovskogo basically Finns and Swedes - but it because there analyses hand over where more often, than in ßìàëî-Nenets autonomous region. Reasons antinormanistov to hear it was not possible: the main supporter of a slavic origin Rjurikov Andrey Saharov has refused conversation, having declared, that it is not excited at all with calculations genetikov.
« Dmitry Shahovskogo's results can be interpreted differently. But I would rank it not as Scandinavians, and nevertheless to finno-óãðàì. Then the legend about a calling varjagov gets special colour », - the employee of laboratory populjatsionnoj genetics of the ¼Ññ¿¬«-genetic centre of science of Russian Academy of Medical Science Oleg Balanovsky speaks. However, historians for a long time have found out, as the slavic tribes lived in verhovjah of Volga, had a significant Finno-Ugric component - no less than modern Russian.
It is possible to assume, what exactly to gaplogruppe N concerned "ingevony" - group of not German tribes participated in intrusion into Britain still in IV century About them it is known, that they had the Ural roots. The expert across Ancient Russia Apollo Kuzmin carries to this group and varjagov which in the early Middle Ages named veringami or vagrami.
Kuzmin approves what to assimilate with Slavs varjagi steel in middle IXâ. that is shortly before Rjurik has taken a princely place. They have moved on our coast of Baltic together with groups rusov, lived on about. Rjugen. From here, Kuzmin assumes, in « the Story of time years » and there was a double name of immigrants: « also have followed the sea to varjagam, to Russia for so those were called varjagi - rus ».
But varjagi, even assimilated with Slavs, at the moment of events 862 most likely were genetically absolutely other tribe. To prove it, it is not enough one test of DNA. In following year we shall carry out more detailed research of numerous descendants Rjurikovichej Russia and abroad.
DNA tutkimukset saattavat nyt lopettaa tämän kädenväännön. DNA tekniikka on kääntänyt viisarin uuteen suuntaan. Lähes kaikki Novgorodin asukkaat olivatkin suomalaisia. Suurin osa nykyisistä Novgorodin ja Pskovin alueiden asukkaista on geneettisesti suomalaisia:
http://www.istc.ru/istc/sc.nsf/news/science-news-finns-novgorod-soil.htm
This is what geneticists from the Magadan Institute of Biological Problems of the North tell us; they have learnt that the succession of Russians from the Novgorod Oblast is most distinctive. This is brought about by the close vicinity of the Finnish-Ugorsk peoples, who, from time immemorial when the ancient population was formed, have had a noticeable influence.
Scientists conducted their research in Novgorod Veliki and the Volot settlement, on the border between the Novgorod and Pskov oblasts. They took blood samples from 80 volunteers from each populated location, Russians from the mother's side in a minimum of two generations. From the collected blood samples they isolated mitochondrial DNA and looked for genes in this DNA, which is spread among the populations of various regions of Eurasia. It transpires that individual groups of genes found in the residents of Novgorod, are a characteristic feature not of Russians, but for the Northern Finno-Ugorsk people of Eastern Europe - the Finns, Udmurts, Maris, and Komi-Zyryan.
Rurikin sukulinja hallitsi venjää vuosisatoja. Tästä linjasta on hengissä Dmitry Shahovskoj joka pitkän suostuttelun jälkeen suostui Y-DNA testiin. Testin tulos vahvistaa; Rurik kuului haploryhmään N..
http://runewsweek.ru/theme/?tid=96&rid=1568
(linkki venäjäksi, ohessa huono konekäännös)
Prince Dmitry Shahovskoj was not afraid, that DNA will show Rjurikovichej from the unexpected party. « Surprises, certainly, can be. But what it is more important - genetic or spiritual continuity? It is assured, that spiritual. Still, according to the Roman right, the father - the one who has recognized the paternity who incurs the responsibility to be the father », - lineal descendant Rjurika assured. Certainly, nobody can be assured, that all your ancestors on a parent line for 1150 all up to one were true to the husbands.
Concerning to historical sense of research - and it consisted in defining, at last, whence to Novgorod there has arrived prince Rjurik, - SHahovskoj was expressed in the same spirit: whether « Normanist I? It is wrong to divide all on normanistov or not-íîðìàíèñòîâ. When I think about Rjurikah, I think of the responsibility. Rjurikovichi became the first sluzhilymi people. They have entered into use idea of service for the blessing of Russia-Russia ».
Rjurik, its role and an origin - a subject almost the hottest and long dispute in the Russian society. It lasts two centuries and yet has not ended with a victory of any over the parties. Historians put forward different versions: Rjurik, arrived to Novgorod under « the Story of time years » in 862, could be both the Scandinavian, and the Finn, and the Balt. One more riddle - whether Rjurik has been invited (so have written down in annals in centuries after those events) or has taken authority force.
« In the beginning of XVII century in aggressive ekspansionistskih circles of Sweden struggled for tearing away at Russia of its northwest grounds with Novgorod, Rjurik and varjagi have been declared by Scandinavians, the Swedes who have introduced statehood in wild vostochnoslavjanskie of the ground », - director of Institute of the Russian history of the Russian Academy of Science Andrey Saharov is indignant known antinormanist. Under its textbooks of history the present high school - so studies, in 8-th class children learn, that « varjazhsky prince » Rjurik was the Slav.
Feature of its political career of DNA will not clear. Therefore we were limited to questions of an origin of the founder of the first Russian ruling house. If it is fair, we very much hoped for that at prince it was defined gaplogruppa I-it still name « gaplogruppoj vikings »: everywhere, where these terrible conquerors landed, they "have left" to natives this gaplogruppu. If all was so simply, questions on Scandinavian origin Rjurika almost would not remain. But to genes you will not order - and gaplogruppa Dmitry Mihajlovicha it was defined as N - in it at genetikov there were no doubts. Descendant Rjurika has remained is happy: « it is surprising, that the person from whom there were only a few mentions in the annals, now has found material features », - prince Shahovskoj speaks.
Photo: ITAR-TASSIt is the best variant for fans of detectives. This is a lot of thousand years ago gaplogruppa has arisen in Asia, has passed through Urals Mountains and Siberia and has reached coast of Northern and Baltic seas in northern Europe - in Finland and Scandinavia. Today carriers of this gaplogruppy - Finno-Ugric people and a small part of modern Swedes with Norwegians. In Russia it meets more often beyond Urals Mountains - for example, at nentsev and Yakuts. However, search on a database has shown, that in relatives at SHahovskogo basically Finns and Swedes - but it because there analyses hand over where more often, than in ßìàëî-Nenets autonomous region. Reasons antinormanistov to hear it was not possible: the main supporter of a slavic origin Rjurikov Andrey Saharov has refused conversation, having declared, that it is not excited at all with calculations genetikov.
« Dmitry Shahovskogo's results can be interpreted differently. But I would rank it not as Scandinavians, and nevertheless to finno-óãðàì. Then the legend about a calling varjagov gets special colour », - the employee of laboratory populjatsionnoj genetics of the ¼Ññ¿¬«-genetic centre of science of Russian Academy of Medical Science Oleg Balanovsky speaks. However, historians for a long time have found out, as the slavic tribes lived in verhovjah of Volga, had a significant Finno-Ugric component - no less than modern Russian.
It is possible to assume, what exactly to gaplogruppe N concerned "ingevony" - group of not German tribes participated in intrusion into Britain still in IV century About them it is known, that they had the Ural roots. The expert across Ancient Russia Apollo Kuzmin carries to this group and varjagov which in the early Middle Ages named veringami or vagrami.
Kuzmin approves what to assimilate with Slavs varjagi steel in middle IXâ. that is shortly before Rjurik has taken a princely place. They have moved on our coast of Baltic together with groups rusov, lived on about. Rjugen. From here, Kuzmin assumes, in « the Story of time years » and there was a double name of immigrants: « also have followed the sea to varjagam, to Russia for so those were called varjagi - rus ».
But varjagi, even assimilated with Slavs, at the moment of events 862 most likely were genetically absolutely other tribe. To prove it, it is not enough one test of DNA. In following year we shall carry out more detailed research of numerous descendants Rjurikovichej Russia and abroad.
Vastaukset 7
Vanhimmat
olla se siirtomaalainen ja pakkokastettu kun pitää keksiä oma historiansa...
"olla se siirtomaalainen ja pakkokastettu"
Mitä tarkoitat?
Tuossahan ei nimenomaan ole kysymys siirtomaalaisten ja pakkokastettujen jutuista. Luitko ollenkaan noita linkkejä ???? Jos geenitutkimus sanoo että alueen asukkaat (nykyisetkin) on suomalaisia ja että Rurikin jälkeläinen kuuluu haploon N niin miten h*lvetissä tämä on pakkokastettujen keksittyä historiaa ????
Itseasiassa venäjän oma historian opetus opetti aina 1700 luvulle asti, että Rurik oli Suomen kuninkaan poika ja Suomi on entinen kuningaskunta.
Vasta kun Suomesta tuli osa Venäjää 1809, niin asia unohdettiin hiljaisuudessa.
Olen itse joskus miettinyt, että oliko tämä Venäläisten oma historian opetus syynä siihen, että ne antoivat meille niin auliisti noinkin kattavan autonomian 1809.
Pitikö Aleksanteri Suomea ihan oikeasti ikivanhana kuningaskuntana.
Eli palautti valtion statuksen Suomelle nimittämällä Suomen "Ruhtinaskunnaksi" ...
Teoria jota haluaisin uskoa, mutta täällä ei haluta todennäköisesti uskoa, valitettavasti. Suomen esihistoria on täynnä enemmän legendamaista tietoa kun tositietoa, mutta itänaapurin historia on sitä vielä enemmän. Ehkä tämäkin kuitenkin antaa vahvistusta siihen että suomalaiset olivat tärkeä kansa Novgorodin perustamisen yhteydessä. Onhan todistettua myös että ennnen Pietarin perustamista js Pietarin alkuaikoina kaupunki oli täynnä suomalaisia. Venäläiset kirjoittavat historiaa uudestaan ja valitettavasti nykypolvi suomalaisista uskoo siihen mitä lukee.
Internet muuttaa asiaa myöskin. Niinkuin tuossa aikaisemmin on käynyt julki esimerkiksi wikipediassa aiotaan Pähkinäsaaren rauha nimetä esimerkiksi Nöteborgin rauhaksi venäläisten aloitteesta. Julkinen äänestys päättää tämän asian. Ehkäpä jatkosotakin muutetaan tulevaisuudessa kansainvälisellä äänestyksellä Venäläisten "Pariotic War:iksi"
Näinhän se on, jokainen valtio satuilee itse oman historiansa ...
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Mielenkiintoinen oli tuo instituutin nimi "...Biological Problems of the North"... Toivotaan, ettei joku siellä pidä myös N3-tyypin geenejä ongelmana... Veikkaan tosin, että Putinkin paljastuisi saman muinaisen isäukon jälkeläisiksi kuin esim Rurik, minä ja 63,7 % muista Suomessa asujista...