arvaustietokilpakysymys

Irak?

vaikka kirjoitti:

Irak?

ollut mutta Egypti oli. Kaksoisvirtainmaassa oli useita valtioita mutta Assyyria tai Babyloniakaan eivät ole alueellisesti tai etnisesti sama kuin nyky-Irak. Egyptin kohdalla yhteys on katkeamaton. Itse asiassa en tiedä olisiko muita ollenkaan.

rasismia vastaan kirjoitti:

ollut mutta Egypti oli. Kaksoisvirtainmaassa oli useita valtioita mutta Assyyria tai Babyloniakaan eivät ole alueellisesti tai etnisesti sama kuin nyky-Irak. Egyptin kohdalla yhteys on katkeamaton. Itse asiassa en tiedä olisiko muita ollenkaan.

... tähän ei oikestaan taida olla oikeata vastausta, koska vastaus riippuu käännöksestä. Mutta eräs vastaus on sama englantilaisessa Kuningas Jaakon käännöksessä ja suomalaisessa vanhassa Bibliassa. Sen sijaan kyseinen maa onkin eri nimellä vuoden 33 ja uusimmassa suomalaisessa käännöksessä.

Mikä sitten on hepreaksi kys kohta, en osaa sanoa.

Ei tarvitse kovin pitkälle alusta lukea.

H.C. kirjoitti:

... tähän ei oikestaan taida olla oikeata vastausta, koska vastaus riippuu käännöksestä. Mutta eräs vastaus on sama englantilaisessa Kuningas Jaakon käännöksessä ja suomalaisessa vanhassa Bibliassa. Sen sijaan kyseinen maa onkin eri nimellä vuoden 33 ja uusimmassa suomalaisessa käännöksessä.

Mikä sitten on hepreaksi kys kohta, en osaa sanoa.

Ei tarvitse kovin pitkälle alusta lukea.

ajatellaan Bob Marleya, englantilaisen juutalaisen poikaa, joka lauloi "isiensä maasta" kappaleessa exodus -movement of Jah people ...

suomalainen Biblia & King James Bible I moos, toinen luku

H.C. kirjoitti:

... tähän ei oikestaan taida olla oikeata vastausta, koska vastaus riippuu käännöksestä. Mutta eräs vastaus on sama englantilaisessa Kuningas Jaakon käännöksessä ja suomalaisessa vanhassa Bibliassa. Sen sijaan kyseinen maa onkin eri nimellä vuoden 33 ja uusimmassa suomalaisessa käännöksessä.

Mikä sitten on hepreaksi kys kohta, en osaa sanoa.

Ei tarvitse kovin pitkälle alusta lukea.

1 Moos 2:13 Toinen wirta cudzutan Gihon/ se juoxe coco Ethiopian ymbärins.

(selitys: v. 13. Gihon ) on se wirta Egyptis/ joca cudzutan Nilus.)

1933 Kirkkoraamattu:

2:13 Toisen virran nimi on Giihon; se kiertää koko Kuusin maan.

1992 käännös: 13 Toisen joen nimi on Gihon. Se kiertää koko Nubian maan.

H.C. kirjoitti:

1 Moos 2:13 Toinen wirta cudzutan Gihon/ se juoxe coco Ethiopian ymbärins.

(selitys: v. 13. Gihon ) on se wirta Egyptis/ joca cudzutan Nilus.)

1933 Kirkkoraamattu:

2:13 Toisen virran nimi on Giihon; se kiertää koko Kuusin maan.

1992 käännös: 13 Toisen joen nimi on Gihon. Se kiertää koko Nubian maan.

Yohanan,

The Bible does not say that "Mizraim" is what we call "Egypt" or that "Aram" is what we call "Syria". But they are. We know this both from tradition, and by looking at the context in which they appear. The same is true of "Kush".
As far as Nimrod, there have been lots of theories about why a "Kushite" king is said to be ruler of Mesopotamia. My theory, which you can read in my "Nimrod the Mighty, King of Kish, King of Sumer and Akkad", Vetus Testementum 52 (2002), 350-366, is that "Nimrod" is a reflection of the empire of Sargon of Akkad and his grandson Naram-sin, which would make "Kush" father of "Nimrod" to actually be the city of Kish, where Sargon began his career. This was later misunderstood by the editor of Gen. 10 to be a reference to "Kush", son of Ham.

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message -----
From: Yohanan bin-Dawidh
To: Yigal Levin
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Kush


Dear Yigal,

This is true, it does not say from whence Nimrod came, save for that he is of Kush. And it by no means makes it plain that the latter Babylonians were his descendents. But the Miq'ra also never states that Kush and Ethiopia are one, and the same, whereas tradition does. I am not much on tradition that cannot be verified in the Miq'ra, and this is why I brought up actual name slinked with Kush.

Yohanan bin-Dawidh


On 3/20/07, Yigal Levin wrote:
Dear Yohanan,

First of all, welcome to the list. Second, please remember to sign your
posts - it's much more pleasant to carry on discussions with people who have
names that with unsigned posts.

As far as Kush is concerned: Most traditions identify biblical Kush with
what the Greeks called Ethiopia, or what the Egyptians called Nubia, which
is actually modern Sudan. But, as you wrote, Gen. 10 also considers some
Arabian tribes to be descendants of Kush, son of Ham. In other places,
Midian is seen as "Kush" (remember Moses' Kushite wife). However, Gen. 10
does NOT say that Babel, Ereck etc. were Kushite. All is says is that
Nimrod, "son of" Kush, "built" these places. And it does not say where
Nimrod came frum,'


Yigal Levin



----- Original Message -----
From: "Yohanan bin-Dawidh" < yohanan.bin.dawidh at gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:04 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Kush


> *How is that people always attempt to connect Kush with Ethiopia, when in
> truth, while the descendents of Kush may have included the Ethiopians, we
> know from the Tanakh that it did include the towns of Bavel, Urik, Akkad,
> Kalneh, Nin'evah, Resen, Rehoboth-Ur and Kalah, all of which fall in the
> Mesopotamia area near Bavel. We also know that it included the descendents
> of Seva', Hawilah, Sav'ttah, Ra'mah, and Sav'tteka. And from Ra'mah we
> know
> it included Sheva, and Dedan. And one idea is that Ra'mah is also an area
> of
> the Persian gulf area, and Sheva is the land of the Sabeans, i.e. Yemen,
> and
> not Ethiopia. We know for a fact that Bavel was a city of the Kushim, but
> so
> many people attempt to link Ethiopia and Kush together ignoring all other
> people linked to Kush, and this bothers me greatly for it gives a false
> impression of what the Tanakh does, and does not state.*
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.14 /727 - Release Date:
> 19/03/2007 11:49
>
>

_______________________________________________
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H.C. kirjoitti:

Yohanan,

The Bible does not say that "Mizraim" is what we call "Egypt" or that "Aram" is what we call "Syria". But they are. We know this both from tradition, and by looking at the context in which they appear. The same is true of "Kush".
As far as Nimrod, there have been lots of theories about why a "Kushite" king is said to be ruler of Mesopotamia. My theory, which you can read in my "Nimrod the Mighty, King of Kish, King of Sumer and Akkad", Vetus Testementum 52 (2002), 350-366, is that "Nimrod" is a reflection of the empire of Sargon of Akkad and his grandson Naram-sin, which would make "Kush" father of "Nimrod" to actually be the city of Kish, where Sargon began his career. This was later misunderstood by the editor of Gen. 10 to be a reference to "Kush", son of Ham.

Yigal Levin
----- Original Message -----
From: Yohanan bin-Dawidh
To: Yigal Levin
Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2007 3:52 AM
Subject: Re: [b-hebrew] Kush


Dear Yigal,

This is true, it does not say from whence Nimrod came, save for that he is of Kush. And it by no means makes it plain that the latter Babylonians were his descendents. But the Miq'ra also never states that Kush and Ethiopia are one, and the same, whereas tradition does. I am not much on tradition that cannot be verified in the Miq'ra, and this is why I brought up actual name slinked with Kush.

Yohanan bin-Dawidh


On 3/20/07, Yigal Levin wrote:
Dear Yohanan,

First of all, welcome to the list. Second, please remember to sign your
posts - it's much more pleasant to carry on discussions with people who have
names that with unsigned posts.

As far as Kush is concerned: Most traditions identify biblical Kush with
what the Greeks called Ethiopia, or what the Egyptians called Nubia, which
is actually modern Sudan. But, as you wrote, Gen. 10 also considers some
Arabian tribes to be descendants of Kush, son of Ham. In other places,
Midian is seen as "Kush" (remember Moses' Kushite wife). However, Gen. 10
does NOT say that Babel, Ereck etc. were Kushite. All is says is that
Nimrod, "son of" Kush, "built" these places. And it does not say where
Nimrod came frum,'


Yigal Levin



----- Original Message -----
From: "Yohanan bin-Dawidh" < yohanan.bin.dawidh at gmail.com>
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2007 7:04 AM
Subject: [b-hebrew] Kush


> *How is that people always attempt to connect Kush with Ethiopia, when in
> truth, while the descendents of Kush may have included the Ethiopians, we
> know from the Tanakh that it did include the towns of Bavel, Urik, Akkad,
> Kalneh, Nin'evah, Resen, Rehoboth-Ur and Kalah, all of which fall in the
> Mesopotamia area near Bavel. We also know that it included the descendents
> of Seva', Hawilah, Sav'ttah, Ra'mah, and Sav'tteka. And from Ra'mah we
> know
> it included Sheva, and Dedan. And one idea is that Ra'mah is also an area
> of
> the Persian gulf area, and Sheva is the land of the Sabeans, i.e. Yemen,
> and
> not Ethiopia. We know for a fact that Bavel was a city of the Kushim, but
> so
> many people attempt to link Ethiopia and Kush together ignoring all other
> people linked to Kush, and this bothers me greatly for it gives a false
> impression of what the Tanakh does, and does not state.*
> _______________________________________________
> b-hebrew mailing list
> b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.14 /727 - Release Date:
> 19/03/2007 11:49
>
>

_______________________________________________
b-hebrew mailing list
b-hebrew at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-hebrew

on erikoinen valitessan "Nubian" Kushin käännökseksi. Siis nykyisen Sudanin aluetta kutsuivat kreikkalaiset Etiopiaksi ja egyptiläiset Nubiaksi.

engglantilaisia käänöksiä:

NASB: The name of the second river is Gihon; it flows around the whole land of Cush. (NASB ©1995)GWT: The name of the second river is Gihon. This is the one that winds throughout Sudan. (GOD'S WORD®)KJV: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.ASV: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush.BBE: And the name of the second river is Gihon: this river goes round all the land of Cush.DBY: And the name of the second river is Gihon: that is it which surrounds the whole land of Cush.JPS: And the name of the second river is Gihon; the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Cush.WBS: And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same that compasseth the whole land of Cush.WEB: The name of the second river is Gihon: the same river that flows through the whole land of Cush.YLT: and the name of the second river is Gibon, it is that which is surrounding the whole land of Cush;


JOb 28:19. Ei vedä sille vertoja Etiopian topaasi, ei korvaa sitä puhdas kulta. 1933

Nubian topaasit eivät vedä viisaudelle vertaa, puhtain kulta ei riitä sen maksuksi. 1992


tuo kohta käännetään englanniksi lähes järjestään Etiopiaksi


Ester 1:1

1933: Ahasveroksen aikana - sen Ahasveroksen, joka hallitsi Intiasta Etiopiaan saakka, sataa kahtakymmentä seitsemää maakuntaa

1992: Tämä tapahtui kuningas Kserkseen aikana, sen Kserkseen, joka hallitsi sataakahtakymmentäseitsemää maakuntaa Intiasta Nubiaan saakka

(GOD'S WORD®)translation: In the days of Xerxes the following events took place. This was the same Xerxes who ruled over 127 provinces from India to Sudan

Kuningas Jaakko: Now it came to pass in the days of Ahasuerus, (this is Ahasuerus which reigned, from India even unto Ethiopia, over an hundred and seven and twenty provinces:)