Millaisia ovat antamasi pappeuden siunaukset olleet? Oletko keksinyt sanottavaa, joka on ollut henkilökohtaista siunattavalle, vai lausutko suurin piirtein sopivia, mitäänsanomattomia, kelle tahansa sopivia sanoja?
Vrt.:
Subject: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 12:01
Author: Deconstructor
Who here will admit to faking priesthood blessing council?
Only men get to speak for God in the Mormon Church and members (especially women) ask for blessings of council because they want the Lord to speak to them through a worthy priesthood holder.
This is common in the mission field. Elders often give blessings of council to both sister missionaries and potential converts. I'll be the first to admit that I faked speaking for the Lord during these blessings.
I knew one sister missionary who was constantly asking the Elders for blessings to tell her what the Lord wanted her to do. When she finally asked me for a blessing, I placed my hands on her head and speaking for the Lord, told her to seek her answers in prayer. She cried and said it was the best blessing she had ever had. She knew I was a man of God.
What power, especially over women who never give blessings and so aren't in on the "pious fraud."
I saw this in my wards too. There was one Bishop who gave specific council to women every time they were set apart in their church callings. It was the same advice, but the ladies thought it was special instructions for them from the Lord. He was more careful what he said to men during blessings. They seemed less gullible about obeying council given in blessings.
I know we meant well, but who else will admit that the council they gave during a blessing came from them and not the Lord?
Women, as true believers, did you ever suspect the council during a priesthood blessings was not inspired?
Subject: I WILL! I WILL! I had that patter down pat by the time I was 21!
Date: May 10 12:07
Author: flattopSF
I could even imitate various prominent people's "blessing styles"!
My S.W. Kimball imitation had them rolling in the aisles (well, maybe DEEP DOWN INSIDE, they WANTED to be rolling in the aisles…).
8^D
Subject: But Elder, we often wanted to make that crush in a dark suit feel so special!
Date: May 10 12:38
Author: Wanda, a.k.a. "Eve"
... and we knew that submissive, obedient sissies that acknowledge the authority of their priesthood were a turn on ;-)
Sorry if I burst your bubble, Decon. But often that is the sissie's way to get some attention, even get to touch the guy they like, just for a moment. ;-)
We sissies had our tricks up the sleeve too
Wanda
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 12:45
Author: Voce d' Sicce
The ex was not quite fluent enough in double-speak. It did not take me long to realize the blessings he gave me were faked, pointless. Eventually, I put 2 2 together, saw that others were simply more adept, better language skills--smoke n' mirrors.
S
Subject: I did, but I wasn't very good at it. n/t
Date: May 10 12:53
Author: tigerbiter
Subject: Yep, I was good at using vague and emotionally-manipulative words...
Date: May 10 14:06
Author: Squid
... such as "the Lord loves you, and knows you are going through a hard time." This would usually make the blessee quietly choke up. At that point, I could utter off a few vagueries, and finish up with a promise conditioned upon the faith of the blessee or upon God's will, thereby relieving myself (and God) of any liability should the blessing fail to deliver.
It was only after becoming an exmo that I realized that p-hood blessings were merely a power thing. The act of placing hands on a person's head is a position of vulnerability for the blessee and a position of dominance by the blesser. It's a foray into a person's intimate comfort zone that usually only family members are allowed in (under less creepy circumstances I might add). Notice how whenever the top 15 think they might be in a quandry with a member who could betray them they often invoke the church by addressing the member as "brother So-and-so," and attempt to give p-hood blessings. [See the Steve Benson interview with Maxwell and Oaks]
Subject: Me and blessings
Date: May 10 14:30
Author: alex71va
At the time of my "apostasy" was perhaps the busiest blessing-giving time of my life. Our Bishop was regularly overseas 2-3 times a month on weekends. The 1st Counselor was in Medical School and had residency/intern shifts at the hospital about once a month. Thus things worked out oftentimes after church where the 1st Counselor as Acting Bishop would be the one who'd take care of welfare/urgent matters and I'd take care of routine matters like temple recommend renewals, donations opening/processing, issuing callings and setting people apart for their callings. Almost every week I was giving a couple blessings. But I had a few ground rules in my interactions with other members.
(1) I'd always have another person with me when I gave blessings, especially if the recipient was a woman, and even more so if she was a youth or single. I'd have someone (usually a missionary or one of the clerks) play guard on the outside of the door so we wouldn't be interrupted.
(2) If interviewing a woman, especially if single or a youth, I'd make sure the door was unlocked, have the person sit near one of the doors and let the clerk in the next room know that I was interviewing XXXXXXX. I had read horror stories on RfM and elsewhere about priesthood leaders getting themselves into difficulties, and I didn't want any of that.
Before my "apostasy" I was always 100% true-believing sincere in every blessing I gave. I'd search out the feelings in my heart/mind and try to feel the Spirit on what words I should say. I'd start off with the formalities of stating the authority, Jesus's name and the purpose of the blessing. And then I'd just let the words come out however they may. Finally I'd close in the name of Jesus. Never did faking it cross my mind. Whenever possible I'd fast before giving a "very important" blessing, such as an ordination to the priesthood, a blessing for someone going in for major surgery or a blessing for a man on my mission who was an Army Captain getting ready to deploy to Kuwait as a Company Commander in December 1990.
The day after my very sudden "apostasy" I had to give a few blessings and I really struggled to do so. I immediately instituted a few changes:
(1) Instead of saying, "by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood" and proceeding forward I started to say, "by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in order to feel more honest that I was doing this blessing by the power of the church, not by the direct power of God.
(2) I made sure it was shorter and more personal from me to them. I'd start sentences with phrases of "I counsel you to ....." and use phrases to encourage them to stay balanced, don't run faster than they can handle things, don't get stressed out, be honest with everyone you deal with and always feel free to ask questions and seek the truth.
That reminds me of the last few talks I gave in Sacrament meeting. Coiincidentally during the same month I had my "apostasy", the Bishop asked us as his counselors to start speaking at least once a month in Sacrament meeting. My theme was "God wants us to be honest and learn all we can about all things". Frankly I was going nuts being in a church leadership role while being an unbeliever. I was so relieved to get released a few months later :)
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 15:19
Author: Lee
I remember giving some blessings on my mission to the sick but I only said what they wanted to heard. I didn't feel anything but really felt put on the spot to "prophecy" about someone.
A blessing is basically common sense advice that a person could get from anybody. If you are sick what would you naturally say to somebody? "You'll feel better, don't worry, drink lots of water, listen to your doctor," etc.
I think therapists and councilors give "blessings" everyday when they try and help psychologically imbalanced patients recover.
Subject: I faked it too. It hurts to admit it though.
Date: May 10 15:27
Author: Skeptical
I used to listend to for that Voice. I would even stop talking until I heard it. It would always come, too. I know recognize it has the voice of Humanity buried deep inside me.
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 21:25
Author: Mo_no_Mo
I remember one blessing I thought was real...too bad I know now what I know....It was not given by me...I just witnessed it.
I did pretty much what a lot of guys did...I tried to feel something, but just ended up saying things from my own heart and mind. I would try to give good common sense advice and advise people to look for the truth they seek and to follow the advice of professionals and health care providers, etc.
Oh well...I wish there was something out there, but there is not, and I am finally ok with that. I am happier than I have ever been.
Subject: I'll admit I thought it was fake, but what's even worse....
Date: May 10 22:12
Author: $.02
....was that I'd manipulate things to match up to an "answer." One time, after I had mentally left the church, I became really sick. My throat was so swollen I couldn't even swallow water. I had seen the docs, they'd done a strep culture and prescribed antibiotics, but I got worse. The lab called to tell me that my culture was negative. I still got worse. So when my dad asked if I wanted a blessing, I started to cry and shook my head yes. He called a neighbor and they gave me a blessing. (Speaking of which, where do they get the whole sealing of the oil before the actual blessing?) The next day, the docs office called to tell me to stop taking the antibiotics and I told the nurse I couldn't swallow water. They had me come in, get steroids, I got better, etc. Had nothing to do with the blessing. But of course, I kept thinking that they called me days before to tell me to stop taking the antibiotics and I wouldn't have told them how bad off I was, etc., etc. so it was the blessing, and I started having doubts about leaving the church....so stupid. Looking back, I would have called the doc and had the same thing even without the dumb blessing.
I'm sure the majority of them really think they're speaking for God and finding the "inner voice."
Subject: I knew this one was fake.
Date: May 10 22:14
Author: thatsmeinthecorner
When I was being set apart as a counselor in the Relief Society the bishop said just one main thing. He counseled me in the prayer not to bug the new R.S. Pres (an ultra control freak) too much. Not his exact words but that was the central theme. I thought to myself - that was from God? That was the special personal message he wanted to relay to me?
Subject: I just learned in my intercultural communications class in school...
Date: May 10 22:54
Author: Zelph, the White-Laminate-Historian-Handcart-Warrior
That touching a person's head is a demeaning gesture, usually what a grown-up would do to a child. It is one of those subconscious "power plays". It is an act of dominance, and submissiveness. The person that is seeking a blessing is already in a state of vulnerablility, because that is why they are seeking a blessing to begin with. They want to be dominated and are willing to be submissive because of their situation.
Subject: Yes - and I regret it
Date: May 12 12:10
Author: Richard
I was never good at public speaking, and my blessings were never anything like the smooth and flowing blessings that other's gave at a drop of a hat. Therefore, I always rehearsed in my head what I would say beforehand. My TBM wife today still thinks that we were destined for each other because of a blessing that I gave her after we were married. I love her very much, but I hate the "so called" blessings I've given while a TBM.
Subject: Oh please. Absolutely!
Date: May 12 12:30
Author: 2thdoc
Whenever I'd be asked to give a blessing to someone sick or if setting someone apart when on the high council, I'd always rehearse ahead what items I would expect the person would want to hear. I'd have my tried-and-true phrases but would try to be original as well. I think that at the time I didn't really recognize that I was faking it; I was just preparing because of my insecurities with fluid speech.
One funny 'blessing' I was given was when I was desperately trying to be released from the high council (before I ended up just having to flat out quit because they wouldn't release me), I was having an interview with the stake pres and he offered to give me a blessing. He began by calling me by the name of another high councilman and then mentioned several things where "I had blessed the lives of others by doing such and such," assuming I had done those things, but I never had. Anyway, I was feeling validated about what a sham it all is during the whole blessing.
Subject: Ask God for a test run.
Date: May 12 12:50
Author: sm
If you regularly ask God for some kind of miracle to happen in life, and if you actually expect that will happen, perhaps you should first try a simple test run.
Put a coin in a very inconspicuous place with tails up. Then ask God to flip the coin over to heads up. Wait 24 hours, then check the coin. If it is heads up then that means that God heard you and is paying attention to you.
If the coin is still tails up, then either God didn't hear you, or God doesn't care about you, or there is no God. In that case, repeat your prayer to God to flip the coin over.
Keep trying this test run every day until you find that the coin has flipped over. Then you will know that God is listening and you can proceed to ask for some real stuff to happen.
But there is no use praying to God for serious stuff if a simple test run won't work.
Subject: I always felt fake exercising my priesthood power.
Date: May 15 08:11
Author: Stray Mutt
I was incredibly disappointed the moment I was ordained because nothing felt different. I felt as stupid and powerless as before. The God I was desparately chasing seemed as far away as ever. Whenever I'd do some priesthoodly thing I felt like I was just trying to fool myself and others. It didn't help that the results of my mighty priesthood power were indistinguishable from having no power at all. I know some guys really believe the priesthood gives them magical superpowers. I guess I could never do the trick of self-delusion.
Vrt.:
Subject: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 12:01
Author: Deconstructor
Who here will admit to faking priesthood blessing council?
Only men get to speak for God in the Mormon Church and members (especially women) ask for blessings of council because they want the Lord to speak to them through a worthy priesthood holder.
This is common in the mission field. Elders often give blessings of council to both sister missionaries and potential converts. I'll be the first to admit that I faked speaking for the Lord during these blessings.
I knew one sister missionary who was constantly asking the Elders for blessings to tell her what the Lord wanted her to do. When she finally asked me for a blessing, I placed my hands on her head and speaking for the Lord, told her to seek her answers in prayer. She cried and said it was the best blessing she had ever had. She knew I was a man of God.
What power, especially over women who never give blessings and so aren't in on the "pious fraud."
I saw this in my wards too. There was one Bishop who gave specific council to women every time they were set apart in their church callings. It was the same advice, but the ladies thought it was special instructions for them from the Lord. He was more careful what he said to men during blessings. They seemed less gullible about obeying council given in blessings.
I know we meant well, but who else will admit that the council they gave during a blessing came from them and not the Lord?
Women, as true believers, did you ever suspect the council during a priesthood blessings was not inspired?
Subject: I WILL! I WILL! I had that patter down pat by the time I was 21!
Date: May 10 12:07
Author: flattopSF
I could even imitate various prominent people's "blessing styles"!
My S.W. Kimball imitation had them rolling in the aisles (well, maybe DEEP DOWN INSIDE, they WANTED to be rolling in the aisles…).
8^D
Subject: But Elder, we often wanted to make that crush in a dark suit feel so special!
Date: May 10 12:38
Author: Wanda, a.k.a. "Eve"
... and we knew that submissive, obedient sissies that acknowledge the authority of their priesthood were a turn on ;-)
Sorry if I burst your bubble, Decon. But often that is the sissie's way to get some attention, even get to touch the guy they like, just for a moment. ;-)
We sissies had our tricks up the sleeve too
Wanda
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 12:45
Author: Voce d' Sicce
The ex was not quite fluent enough in double-speak. It did not take me long to realize the blessings he gave me were faked, pointless. Eventually, I put 2 2 together, saw that others were simply more adept, better language skills--smoke n' mirrors.
S
Subject: I did, but I wasn't very good at it. n/t
Date: May 10 12:53
Author: tigerbiter
Subject: Yep, I was good at using vague and emotionally-manipulative words...
Date: May 10 14:06
Author: Squid
... such as "the Lord loves you, and knows you are going through a hard time." This would usually make the blessee quietly choke up. At that point, I could utter off a few vagueries, and finish up with a promise conditioned upon the faith of the blessee or upon God's will, thereby relieving myself (and God) of any liability should the blessing fail to deliver.
It was only after becoming an exmo that I realized that p-hood blessings were merely a power thing. The act of placing hands on a person's head is a position of vulnerability for the blessee and a position of dominance by the blesser. It's a foray into a person's intimate comfort zone that usually only family members are allowed in (under less creepy circumstances I might add). Notice how whenever the top 15 think they might be in a quandry with a member who could betray them they often invoke the church by addressing the member as "brother So-and-so," and attempt to give p-hood blessings. [See the Steve Benson interview with Maxwell and Oaks]
Subject: Me and blessings
Date: May 10 14:30
Author: alex71va
At the time of my "apostasy" was perhaps the busiest blessing-giving time of my life. Our Bishop was regularly overseas 2-3 times a month on weekends. The 1st Counselor was in Medical School and had residency/intern shifts at the hospital about once a month. Thus things worked out oftentimes after church where the 1st Counselor as Acting Bishop would be the one who'd take care of welfare/urgent matters and I'd take care of routine matters like temple recommend renewals, donations opening/processing, issuing callings and setting people apart for their callings. Almost every week I was giving a couple blessings. But I had a few ground rules in my interactions with other members.
(1) I'd always have another person with me when I gave blessings, especially if the recipient was a woman, and even more so if she was a youth or single. I'd have someone (usually a missionary or one of the clerks) play guard on the outside of the door so we wouldn't be interrupted.
(2) If interviewing a woman, especially if single or a youth, I'd make sure the door was unlocked, have the person sit near one of the doors and let the clerk in the next room know that I was interviewing XXXXXXX. I had read horror stories on RfM and elsewhere about priesthood leaders getting themselves into difficulties, and I didn't want any of that.
Before my "apostasy" I was always 100% true-believing sincere in every blessing I gave. I'd search out the feelings in my heart/mind and try to feel the Spirit on what words I should say. I'd start off with the formalities of stating the authority, Jesus's name and the purpose of the blessing. And then I'd just let the words come out however they may. Finally I'd close in the name of Jesus. Never did faking it cross my mind. Whenever possible I'd fast before giving a "very important" blessing, such as an ordination to the priesthood, a blessing for someone going in for major surgery or a blessing for a man on my mission who was an Army Captain getting ready to deploy to Kuwait as a Company Commander in December 1990.
The day after my very sudden "apostasy" I had to give a few blessings and I really struggled to do so. I immediately instituted a few changes:
(1) Instead of saying, "by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood" and proceeding forward I started to say, "by the authority of the Melchizedek Priesthood of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" in order to feel more honest that I was doing this blessing by the power of the church, not by the direct power of God.
(2) I made sure it was shorter and more personal from me to them. I'd start sentences with phrases of "I counsel you to ....." and use phrases to encourage them to stay balanced, don't run faster than they can handle things, don't get stressed out, be honest with everyone you deal with and always feel free to ask questions and seek the truth.
That reminds me of the last few talks I gave in Sacrament meeting. Coiincidentally during the same month I had my "apostasy", the Bishop asked us as his counselors to start speaking at least once a month in Sacrament meeting. My theme was "God wants us to be honest and learn all we can about all things". Frankly I was going nuts being in a church leadership role while being an unbeliever. I was so relieved to get released a few months later :)
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 15:19
Author: Lee
I remember giving some blessings on my mission to the sick but I only said what they wanted to heard. I didn't feel anything but really felt put on the spot to "prophecy" about someone.
A blessing is basically common sense advice that a person could get from anybody. If you are sick what would you naturally say to somebody? "You'll feel better, don't worry, drink lots of water, listen to your doctor," etc.
I think therapists and councilors give "blessings" everyday when they try and help psychologically imbalanced patients recover.
Subject: I faked it too. It hurts to admit it though.
Date: May 10 15:27
Author: Skeptical
I used to listend to for that Voice. I would even stop talking until I heard it. It would always come, too. I know recognize it has the voice of Humanity buried deep inside me.
Subject: Re: Faking It: Who will admit their priesthood blessings were fake?
Date: May 10 21:25
Author: Mo_no_Mo
I remember one blessing I thought was real...too bad I know now what I know....It was not given by me...I just witnessed it.
I did pretty much what a lot of guys did...I tried to feel something, but just ended up saying things from my own heart and mind. I would try to give good common sense advice and advise people to look for the truth they seek and to follow the advice of professionals and health care providers, etc.
Oh well...I wish there was something out there, but there is not, and I am finally ok with that. I am happier than I have ever been.
Subject: I'll admit I thought it was fake, but what's even worse....
Date: May 10 22:12
Author: $.02
....was that I'd manipulate things to match up to an "answer." One time, after I had mentally left the church, I became really sick. My throat was so swollen I couldn't even swallow water. I had seen the docs, they'd done a strep culture and prescribed antibiotics, but I got worse. The lab called to tell me that my culture was negative. I still got worse. So when my dad asked if I wanted a blessing, I started to cry and shook my head yes. He called a neighbor and they gave me a blessing. (Speaking of which, where do they get the whole sealing of the oil before the actual blessing?) The next day, the docs office called to tell me to stop taking the antibiotics and I told the nurse I couldn't swallow water. They had me come in, get steroids, I got better, etc. Had nothing to do with the blessing. But of course, I kept thinking that they called me days before to tell me to stop taking the antibiotics and I wouldn't have told them how bad off I was, etc., etc. so it was the blessing, and I started having doubts about leaving the church....so stupid. Looking back, I would have called the doc and had the same thing even without the dumb blessing.
I'm sure the majority of them really think they're speaking for God and finding the "inner voice."
Subject: I knew this one was fake.
Date: May 10 22:14
Author: thatsmeinthecorner
When I was being set apart as a counselor in the Relief Society the bishop said just one main thing. He counseled me in the prayer not to bug the new R.S. Pres (an ultra control freak) too much. Not his exact words but that was the central theme. I thought to myself - that was from God? That was the special personal message he wanted to relay to me?
Subject: I just learned in my intercultural communications class in school...
Date: May 10 22:54
Author: Zelph, the White-Laminate-Historian-Handcart-Warrior
That touching a person's head is a demeaning gesture, usually what a grown-up would do to a child. It is one of those subconscious "power plays". It is an act of dominance, and submissiveness. The person that is seeking a blessing is already in a state of vulnerablility, because that is why they are seeking a blessing to begin with. They want to be dominated and are willing to be submissive because of their situation.
Subject: Yes - and I regret it
Date: May 12 12:10
Author: Richard
I was never good at public speaking, and my blessings were never anything like the smooth and flowing blessings that other's gave at a drop of a hat. Therefore, I always rehearsed in my head what I would say beforehand. My TBM wife today still thinks that we were destined for each other because of a blessing that I gave her after we were married. I love her very much, but I hate the "so called" blessings I've given while a TBM.
Subject: Oh please. Absolutely!
Date: May 12 12:30
Author: 2thdoc
Whenever I'd be asked to give a blessing to someone sick or if setting someone apart when on the high council, I'd always rehearse ahead what items I would expect the person would want to hear. I'd have my tried-and-true phrases but would try to be original as well. I think that at the time I didn't really recognize that I was faking it; I was just preparing because of my insecurities with fluid speech.
One funny 'blessing' I was given was when I was desperately trying to be released from the high council (before I ended up just having to flat out quit because they wouldn't release me), I was having an interview with the stake pres and he offered to give me a blessing. He began by calling me by the name of another high councilman and then mentioned several things where "I had blessed the lives of others by doing such and such," assuming I had done those things, but I never had. Anyway, I was feeling validated about what a sham it all is during the whole blessing.
Subject: Ask God for a test run.
Date: May 12 12:50
Author: sm
If you regularly ask God for some kind of miracle to happen in life, and if you actually expect that will happen, perhaps you should first try a simple test run.
Put a coin in a very inconspicuous place with tails up. Then ask God to flip the coin over to heads up. Wait 24 hours, then check the coin. If it is heads up then that means that God heard you and is paying attention to you.
If the coin is still tails up, then either God didn't hear you, or God doesn't care about you, or there is no God. In that case, repeat your prayer to God to flip the coin over.
Keep trying this test run every day until you find that the coin has flipped over. Then you will know that God is listening and you can proceed to ask for some real stuff to happen.
But there is no use praying to God for serious stuff if a simple test run won't work.
Subject: I always felt fake exercising my priesthood power.
Date: May 15 08:11
Author: Stray Mutt
I was incredibly disappointed the moment I was ordained because nothing felt different. I felt as stupid and powerless as before. The God I was desparately chasing seemed as far away as ever. Whenever I'd do some priesthoodly thing I felt like I was just trying to fool myself and others. It didn't help that the results of my mighty priesthood power were indistinguishable from having no power at all. I know some guys really believe the priesthood gives them magical superpowers. I guess I could never do the trick of self-delusion.
Vastaukset 8
Vanhimmat
vaikka esititkin sen Zappaksille. Olen ollut antamassa monia pappeuden siunauksia ja saanut myös itse osakseni sellaisia.
En lukenut tuota englanninkielistä osaa mutta vastaan kuitenkin kysymykseesi.
Kun annamme siunauksen pidämme ensin rukouksen jolla kutsumme Pyhän Hengen läsnäoloa. Kun siunaaja asettaa kätensä siunattavan päänpääle hän lausuu sanat, joihin Pyhä Henki kehoittaa. Toki aloitamme omin sanoin, mutta huomaamme pian kuinka henki johtaa puhettamme ja antaa tilanteeseen oikeat sanat. Moni on jälkeenpäin sanonut saaneensa apua siunauksesta.
Kaikkein voimakkain kokemus minulla oli 70-luvun alussa kun kävin Sveitsissä ja sain siellä patriarkallisen siunaukseni. Henki oli niin voimakas, etten voi selittää sitä muuten kuin Jumalan Hengen läsnäololla. Myös siunauksen sisältö on toteutunut lähes kirjaimellisesti sekä minun, että vaimoni osalta tähän mennessä.
Vaikka siunaus annettiin saksaksi ja en ymmärtänyt sanoja mutta tunsin Pyhän Hengen läsnäolon konkreettisena ja näin tunsivat myös vaimoni, patriarkka ja tulkki. Siunausta ei tulkattu mutta muut keskustelumme tulkattiin ja hengen avulla välillä ymmärsin mistä puhuttiin, ennen tulkkausta. Vaikka olimme nuoria tämä kokemus vei meiltä kaikilta voimat ja olimme hyvin väsyneitä kaikki.
Nämä kaikki kokemukset ovat osaltaan myös uskoani vahvistavia. Mikään mahti maailmassa ei voi näiden kokemusten jälkeen tulla kääntämään mielipidettäni ja todistustani muuksi. Se olisi mielestäni Jumalan pilkkaa.
Unski
Konstantinopolin ekumeeninen patriarkaatti on yksi viidestä alkuperäisestä ns. vanhasta patriarkaatista. Neljä muuta ovat Rooman, Aleksandrian, Antiokian ja Jerusalemin patriarkaatit, joista Rooman päämies paavi johtaa katolista kirkkoa.
Konstantinopolin ekumeenista patriarkaattia johtaa Konstantinopolin, Uuden Rooman, arkkipiispa ja ekumeeninen patriarkka, Bartolomeos I. Hän lienee arvostetuin kirkonmies koko maailmassa. Bartolomeos I on käynyt myös Suomessa ja monet ovat saaneet häneltä siunauksen
Saitko sinäkin siunauksen suoraan patriarkka Bartolomeos I :ltä?
Turust
>> Myös siunauksen sisältö on toteutunut lähes kirjaimellisesti sekä minun, että vaimoni osalta tähän mennessä.
Vaikka siunaus annettiin saksaksi ja en ymmärtänyt sanoja mutta tunsin Pyhän Hengen läsnäolon konkreettisena ja näin tunsivat myös vaimoni, patriarkka ja tulkki.
asian hieman väärin. MAP-kirkossa on omat patriarkat ja nykyään niitä on myös Suomessa. 1970-luvulla lähin oli Sveitsissä joten silloin sain siunaukseni siellä.
Unski
on saatu kirjallisena ja käännetty, mutta ei siunauksen aikana, koska se olisi häirinnyt toimitusta. Minulla on siitä aivan selväkielinen suomennos. Enpä tunne itseäni mitenkään pölvästiksi. Nuo hyökkäykset ovat antimormoneilta tuttuja ja osasinkin jo odottaa niitä. Et pettänyt tälläkään kertaa:-)
perinteisiä kristillisiin kirkkoihin vuosituhansien aikana vakiintuneita termejä ja arvonimiä. Tällainen menettely johtaa lukijat pahasti harhaan.
Onko se tarkoituskin?
Turust
päällä. Palautetussa kirkossa on kaikki ne virat mitkä siihen kuuluu. Patriarkan virka on niistä yksi.
Unski
Eli selvästi olen huomannut että olen antanut sekä Hengen johdattamaa että "omaa tekstiä".
Mutta toisaalta, en tiedä varmasti että olisin vain keksinyt sen mitä sanon, vaikka en itse olisikaan tuntenut Hengen johdatusta, voi olla että Henki on silti ohjannut sanomisiani... Ei ole helppoa tämän analysointi, vaikeata olla objektiivinen hengellisten kokemusten suhteen.
Mutta kaikenlaisia siunauksia olen antanut:
- lapsilleni nimenantotilaisuudessa.
ja muistakin siunauksia kotipiirissä.
- sairaan ja loukkaantuneen siunauksia.
- siunauksia tehtäviin erottamisen yhteydessä.
Minulla kyllä on tiettyjä asioita, jotka ovat lähellä omaa sydäntä evankeliumissa ja mainitsen niitäkin siunausten yhteydessä, mutta minusta siinä ei ole mitään teko- yms. juttua, koska se on osa minua.