ei MAP- kirkon ovat sivut , vaan koko mormonismista kertovat sivut.
Tässä pisteihmiselle (...) ne linkit moniavioisuuteen ja poliisijahtiin. Huomaa myös kakkoslinkin alaotsikot ja niitten uutiset.
Lyökää hakuun sanaryväs: Mormons,polygamy and police ja saatte asioista lisävaloa!
Huomionarvoista on että Zappa nikki kehottaa ihmisiä hyväksymään moniavioisuuden meilläkin täällä vaikka se on Suomenlakien mukaan rikos...
Tässä pisteihmiselle (...) ne linkit moniavioisuuteen ja poliisijahtiin. Huomaa myös kakkoslinkin alaotsikot ja niitten uutiset.
Lyökää hakuun sanaryväs: Mormons,polygamy and police ja saatte asioista lisävaloa!
Huomionarvoista on että Zappa nikki kehottaa ihmisiä hyväksymään moniavioisuuden meilläkin täällä vaikka se on Suomenlakien mukaan rikos...
Vastaukset 56
Vanhimmat
http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/polygamy/polygamy.html
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displayStory.cfm?story_id=2907136
http://www.polygamyinfo.com/plygmedia 00 106canews.htm
http://www.rickross.com/reference/polygamy/polygamy96.html
Täytyypä lueskella..
samalla kakkoslinkin sivulla , hehe!
Vancouver -- Debbie Palmer, a women with eight children from three assigned marriages in a Mormon polygamist colony, is going to court in an effort to expose a lifestyle which she says leads to sexual, physical, psychological and spiritual abuse.
Ms. Palmer, 47, intends to ask the B.C. Supreme Court this week to consider a class action against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on behalf of women who say they have suffered as a result of the religion's communal, polygamist lifestyle.
At least 25 wives, and possibly as many as 200 from communities in Canada and the United States are expected to be part of the unprecedented lawsuit against the well-established religious institution.
She said she expects the civil court case will "bring into the public and legal arena questions that the government has been extremely reluctant to address."
The lawsuit could shatter a 55-year long silence by authorities who have ignored repeated attempts by women for help.
Ms. Palmer was part of the polygamist Mormon group that established a commune called Bountiful in an isolated part of southeast British Columbia in 1947.
Ms. Palmer said she suffered sexual, physical, psychological and spiritual abuse as a child and as a wife at Bountiful.
The civil lawsuit will raise concerns about the lack of education for children in the religious community and the social, financial and personal difficulties confronting those who try to leave, she said.
The fundamentalist sect believes the highest degree of salvation is achieved through multiple "celestial" marriages and having several children.
Polygamy is illegal, but the government has adopted a hands-off approach to the community. B.C. Attorney-General Geoff Plant says a guarantee of freedom of religion protects church members from the law.
Lawyer Vaughn Marshall, of the Calgary-based firm of Docken & Company, said in an interview the women are looking for justice. "They want a court to say, 'This was wrong,' " said Mr. Marshall, who is spearheading a team representing the women.
Laws on polygamy and bigamy are intended to prevent the exploitation of women and to protect their property rights, he said. But women leave Bountiful with nothing, Mr. Marshall said.
The lawsuit alleges systemic negligence and abuse, and "unjust enrichment," he also said.
Winston Blackmore, a long-time leader of the community who has 30 wives and more than 100 children, was replaced this summer. He did not respond to a request for an interview. Jim Oler, the current leader, also did not return phone calls.
Ms. Palmer said the rural community currently has about 200 men and 600 women and children. Bountiful is affiliated with polygamist Mormon communities in Utah and Arizona, with a population of between 20,000 and 30,000 people.
She said she is aware of about 50 girls who have been brought across the Canada-U.S. border in the past three years to be married to men at Bountiful. About 25 girls from Bountiful have been sent to Utah and Arizona for marriage, she said.
Documents obtained by The Globe and Mail earlier this year showed that federal immigration officials have granted permission for U.S. girls brought to Bountiful for polygamist marriages to stay in Canada permanently.
Ms. Palmer has been trying since the mid-1990s to establish a system of support for women who wish to leave Bountiful. She estimates she has helped about 40 women who have left the polygamist colony over the past decade.
She said women who left Bountiful have recounted incidents of sexual abuse. No criminal charges involving sex crimes have been laid against Bountiful members since the early 1990s.
Ms. Palmer's parents moved to the polygamist colony when she was 2. The religion's leader, Rulon Jeffs, assigned her to be the sixth wife of Ray Blackmore when she was 15. Mr. Blackmore was 57 at that time.
Mr. Blackmore died of leukemia two years later. Ms. Palmer was assigned to two more husbands before she left, in despair, in 1991.
In a documentary on her struggles, called Leaving Bountiful,produced by Helen Slinger and Maureen Palmer, she says she left after her 13-year-old daughter said she had been touched sexually by Ms. Palmer's third husband.
Ms. Palmer said in an interview that the community of Boutiful is in turmoil after Mr. Jeffs died without leaving a designated successor.
Mormonismin kuva:
Naisten ja lasten seksuaalista hyväksikäyttöä, naisten alistamista, pedofiliaa, raiskauksia. Tämä kaikki Jeesuksen Kristuksen nimessä. Kammottavaa, järkyttävää, oksettavaa. "Naisen ainoa tehtävä on palvella miestä ja synnyttää hänelle mahdollisimman paljon lapsia. Tätä "Jumalan tahtoa" aletaan toteuttamaan tytön ollessa 12-13 vuotias." Lapsimorsian 12-13v. sulhanen 40-50v. Pedofilia eli lapseen sekaantuminen on lähes aina myös juridisesti raiskaus. Minkälaisia hirviöitä te momonimiehet oikein olette?
Hirttää teidät pitäisi..just sieltä!
Mä olen nuo mormonismikuviot jättänyt taakseni, mutten tosiaan noista syistä. Olin pitkään mukana, enkä ikinä nähnyt mitään pedofiliaa niissä ympyröissä. Mitä epämääräisempiä kuvioita olen kyllä lukenut niistä ns.mormoneista,jotka käyttävät sitä nimeä ja kuuluttavat olevansa se ainoa ja oikea suunta moniavioisuuksineen. Virallinen Map-kirkkohan on kieltänyt moniavioisuuden ajat sitten.
Eli erottakaa ny sentään eri porukat toisistaan ennenkuin alatte vaahtoamaan:) Paljon kritisoitavaa Map-kirkossa on jenkkimielisyyksineen, mutta ei pidä listiä selllaisesta, mihin se ei ole syyllistynyt.
Olen samaa mieltä siinä, että jokainen pedofiili pitäisi hirttää munistaan ja jos se on nainen, niin roikkukoot kuolemaansa asti vaikka tisseistään.
Sen verran yleensä uskonnollisia ympyröitä läpikäyneenä tiedän, että yleistys koskemaan kaikkia ei todellakaan pidä paikkaansa ja tässä tapauksessa haukutaan eri suuntaakin jo. Vähän sama asia, kun haukuttaisiin lestadiolaisia ahdasmielisyyksistään jonkun toisen kristillisen lahkon/kirkon taholta. Menee vähän pieleen:)
Jos et lukenut, niin lue. Saatat tulla toisiin ajatuksiin.
Vancouver -- Debbie Palmer, a women with eight children from three assigned marriages in a Mormon polygamist colony, is going to court in an effort to expose a lifestyle which she says leads to sexual, physical, psychological and spiritual abuse.
-Debbie Palmer ,8 lapsen äiti aikoo nostaa oikeusjutun Mormoneja vastaan, joiden opit monmiavioisuudesta ovat johtaneet hänet kokemaan sexuaalista, psyykkistä, psykologista ja hengellistä hyväksikäyttöä.
Ms. Palmer, 47, intends to ask the B.C. Supreme Court this week to consider a class action against the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on behalf of women who say they have suffered as a result of the religion's communal, polygamist lifestyle.
At least 25 wives, and possibly as many as 200 from communities in Canada and the United States are expected to be part of the unprecedented lawsuit against the well-established religious institution.
She said she expects the civil court case will "bring into the public and legal arena questions that the government has been extremely reluctant to address."
The lawsuit could shatter a 55-year long silence by authorities who have ignored repeated attempts by women for help.
Ms. Palmer was part of the polygamist Mormon group that established a commune called Bountiful in an isolated part of southeast British Columbia in 1947.
Ms. Palmer said she suffered sexual, physical, psychological and spiritual abuse as a child and as a wife at Bountiful.
The civil lawsuit will raise concerns about the lack of education for children in the religious community and the social, financial and personal difficulties confronting those who try to leave, she said.
The fundamentalist sect believes the highest degree of salvation is achieved through multiple "celestial" marriages and having several children.
Polygamy is illegal, but the government has adopted a hands-off approach to the community. B.C. Attorney-General Geoff Plant says a guarantee of freedom of religion protects church members from the law.
Moniavioiusuus on laitonta, mutta uskonnonvapauslaki suojellee mormoneita ja heidän laittomuuttaan. Sairasta.
Lawyer Vaughn Marshall, of the Calgary-based firm of Docken & Company, said in an interview the women are looking for justice. "They want a court to say, 'This was wrong,' " said Mr. Marshall, who is spearheading a team representing the women.
Laws on polygamy and bigamy are intended to prevent the exploitation of women and to protect their property rights, he said. But women leave Bountiful with nothing, Mr. Marshall said.
The lawsuit alleges systemic negligence and abuse, and "unjust enrichment," he also said.
Winston Blackmore, a long-time leader of the community who has 30 wives and more than 100 children, was replaced this summer. He did not respond to a request for an interview. Jim Oler, the current leader, also did not return phone calls.
Ms. Palmer said the rural community currently has about 200 men and 600 women and children. Bountiful is affiliated with polygamist Mormon communities in Utah and Arizona, with a population of between 20,000 and 30,000 people.
She said she is aware of about 50 girls who have been brought across the Canada-U.S. border in the past three years to be married to men at Bountiful. About 25 girls from Bountiful have been sent to Utah and Arizona for marriage, she said.
Documents obtained by The Globe and Mail earlier this year showed that federal immigration officials have granted permission for U.S. girls brought to Bountiful for polygamist marriages to stay in Canada permanently.
Ms. Palmer has been trying since the mid-1990s to establish a system of support for women who wish to leave Bountiful. She estimates she has helped about 40 women who have left the polygamist colony over the past decade.
She said women who left Bountiful have recounted incidents of sexual abuse. No criminal charges involving sex crimes have been laid against Bountiful members since the early 1990s.
Ms. Palmer's parents moved to the polygamist colony when she was 2. The religion's leader, Rulon Jeffs, assigned her to be the sixth wife of Ray Blackmore when she was 15. Mr. Blackmore was 57 at that time.
Mr. Blackmore died of leukemia two years later. Ms. Palmer was assigned to two more husbands before she left, in despair, in 1991.
In a documentary on her struggles, called Leaving Bountiful,produced by Helen Slinger and Maureen Palmer, she says she left after her 13-year-old daughter said she had been touched sexually by Ms. Palmer's third husband.
Ms. Palmer said in an interview that the community of Boutiful is in turmoil after Mr. Jeffs died without leaving a designated successor.
Clarification
The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, which promotes polygamy as important for salvation, is not associated with the Mormon church.
The Mormon church, officially known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, discontinued the practice of polygamy in 1890.
Selvää tekstiä. Ai niin tuossa taidettiinkin mainita Roman-Catolic Church, eikä suinkaan Mormon church, officiallly known as the Church of Jesus Christ of Letter Saints? Niinkö?
Saints? Myöhempien aikojen Pyhät? Irvokasta pilaa koko mormonismi!
Myöhempien Aikojen Pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen Kirkko = The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.Pyhä siinä nimessä ei ole mitään hymistelyä, vaan perinteisenä jatkuva, sillä alkuajan kristityt kutsuivat itseään pyhiksi. Se ei siis tarkoita muita parempia ihmisiä=)
Itse en törmännyt koskaan edes pedofiliaan viittaavaan ilmiöön ja olin sentään mukana, jopa johtavilla paikoilla, sentäs yli 10 v.Uskoisin, että kyllä siinä ajassa aktiivina olisin jotain tajunnut,jos mätää siinä mielessä olisi ollut.
Mielestäni perusopetukset esim.lasten alkeisyhdistyksessä olivat sellaiset, että ne olivat hyvä perusta moraalisuudelle. En löytänyt siltä kantilta mitään huomautettavaa. Tietysti se ,että oliko Joseph Smith profeetta voidaan tietysti kyseenalaistaa, mutta perheen ja ihmisten kunnioitus yms.olivat ok.
Edelleen kyselen sen perään, että onko nämä kirjoitukset todella siitä alkuperäisestä, virallisesta kirkosta lähtöisin, jonka itse opin tuntemaan. Usein on mormonien syyksi luettu monia asioita ja ne on tarkemmassa syynissä paljastuneetkin jonkun kirkosta erotetun porukan omiksi huuhaa-jutuiksi. Onko esim. lehden toimittaja ollut tietoinen todella siitä, että minkä suunnan edustajien kanssa on tekemisissä vai pistänyt automaattisesti faktoja ja fuulaa sekaisin syystä, ettei ole tarkastanut pohjatietoja. Ihan tästä näin en usko tuollaiseen touhuun kirkon sisällä.
Nyt voi sitten kysyä, että miksi yleensä olet lähtenyt noin hienosta systeemistä nostelemaan:) Mä en vaan usko, että on yhtä oikeaa kirkkoa yms.Mä en pidä siitä, että Usa on jokin ihannemaa, en siitä, että kirkon profeetta ja muut silmäätekevät poseeraavat mieluusti valtakunnan mahtavien joukossa ja ottavat mitaleja vastaan sellaisilta hyypiöiltä. Uskottavuus katosi ja lisäksi se, ettei siinä kirkossa ole todellista vasemmistoa olemassakaan. Yksinäinen orpopiru päätti siis häipyä=)
Siinä lukee että
Ms. Palmer, 47, intends to ask the B.C. Supreme Court this week to consider a class action against the "FUNDAMENTALIST Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" on behalf of women who say they have suffered as a result of the religion's communal, polygamist lifestyle.
No näitä "fundamentalist mormooneja" ei tarvitse suomessa pelätä. Heitä ei taida olla suomessa. MUISTAKAA erottaa "Myöhempien aikojen pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkko" näistä fundamentalisteista. Tässä sinun tekstissäsi ei kerrota tästä "Myöhempien aikojen pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkkosta" muuta kuin että se lopetti moniaviosuuden 1890.
Taitaa pedofiilia olla muissa kirkoissa ongelma ei suinkaan "Myöhempien aikojen pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkkossa"
Valitettavasti "Myöhempien aikojen pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkkosta" käytetään nimeä mormoonit ja luopuneista lahkoista käytetään myös nimeä mormoonit. Näin tulee helposti sekaannuksia. Ihmiset ajattelee että samaa porukkaa nuo kaikki mormoonit. Käyttäkää vaikka lyhennette MAP-kirkko (englanniksi LDS-church) puhuessa "Myöhempien aikojen pyhien Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkkosta" niin ei tule näitä sekaannuksia. Koittakkaa olla tarkkana noitten lahkojen erottamisessa itse MAP-kirkosta. Eihän luterilaiset ole katolilaisia vaikka ovatkin katolilaisesta kirkosta lahkoutuneet.
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Ja kuten aikaisemmin totesinkin niin tuohan EI ole MAP-Kirkko ...
Osaatko englantia?
nämäkaksi suuntaa toisistaan kun tämänkin palstan mormoni avoimestikannattaa Suomessa rikollista polygamiaa?
Aika vaikeaa on eroittaa siinnä sitten!
tämän jalkeen suositella moniavioisuutta?
Letter-day Saints tarkoita Myöhempien päivien pyhät, eli myöhempien aikojen pyhät, eli MAP?
Mormonismia se on myös tuo fundamentalist osa, ei suinkaan katolilaisuutta tai luterilaisuutta.
Kysymys ei myskään ole joskus keskiajalla tapahtuneista tapahtumumista, vaan nykypäivän tapahtumista.
Siäpaitsi eräät mormonit täällä toivovat ja odottavat että "Jumalan lait" (lue: Fundamentalistiset lait) tulisivat voimaan Suomessakin ja moniavioisuuden harjoittaminen olisi laillista.
Minä taas puolestai rukoilen ettei sellaista aikaa koskaan tulisi.
Eräskin moniavioisuutta puolustava mormoni "ihmetellen" kysyi, mitä pahaa moniavioisuuden harjoittamisesta voisi olla naisille tai lapsille. No niin, nyt on tullut siihenkin kysymykseen järkyttävä vastaus.
Tämän jälkeen varmaan monikaan moniavioisuuden puolestapuhuja ei uskalla/kehtaa avata suutaan.
Missä tuossa kommentoimassasi viestissä suosittelin moniavioisuutta?
Ja mikä ongelma moniavioisuudessa on? Sehän on tietysti Suomessa nyt laitonta. Mutta mitä muista ongelmia?
Ei tarkoita.
Ja HUOMAA että tuo Fundamentalist kirjoitettiin ISOLLA kirjaimella joten se EI ole MAP-Kirkko!
Kyllä MAP-kirkossa on fundamentalisteja (siis pienellä kirjaimella...), mutta se ei esim. tarkoita sitä että he harjoittaisivat moniavioisuutta.
fundamentalisti moniavioisuus....
Kirjoitit:
Eräskin moniavioisuutta puolustava mormoni "ihmetellen" kysyi, mitä pahaa moniavioisuuden harjoittamisesta voisi olla naisille tai lapsille. No niin, nyt on tullut siihenkin kysymykseen järkyttävä vastaus.
tämähän EI johdu itse moniavioisuudesta vaan sen VÄÄRINKÄYTÖSTÄ.
Ymmärtänet eron?
Oletko noin paatunut? Lue koko tämä thread uudestaan alusta asti.
Sinulle ei ilmeisesti pedofilia ole mikään ongelma? Taidat olla itse pedofiili?
Voi Luoja!!
ja mormonismi. Letter-Day Saints. Myöhempien aikojen Pyhät. MAP-Kirkko (Lyhenne nimestä Myöhempen Aikojen Pyhät)
Aivan samon kuin Ääri-Islamilaiset eivät ole ryhmä joka on Islamilaisuuden ulkopuolella, vaan Islamilaisuuden sisäpuolella, myös Fundamentalist Mormons/ Letter-Day Saints Church of Jesus Christ ryhmä on samaa monrmonismia kuin kaikki muukin mormonismi. Fundamentalist on vain yksi monista lahkoista LDS-"päälahkon" sisällä, ei ulkopuolella.
pedofilia moniavioisuus.
mikä tuossa on vaikeata ymmärtää?
Fundamentalist (Siis isolla "F"-kirjaimella) LDS Church on ryhmä mormonien sisällä EI MAP-Kirkon sisällä...
samoin MAP-kirkon jäsenet ovat mormooneita , mutta kaikki mormoonit EIVÄT ole MAP-Kirkon jäseniä.
Fundamentalist LDS on siis mormonismin lahko EI MAP-Kirkon lahko
Et siis vielkään ole lukenut yhtään tässä threadissa olevaa viestiä. Jos olisit lukenut, niin huomaisit että moniavioisuus on mormonismissa=pedofilia. Esimerkkinä tuo Bountifulin tapaus. Harjoitetaanko mormonismissa pedofiliaa vai ei? Tosiasiat vastaavat= Kyllä!
Hae vielä Googlella "child sexual abuse polygamia mormonism" ilman lainausmerkkejä. Ehkä silmäsi avautuvat. Saatat joka tapauksessa pahoin järkyttyä siitä mitä uskontosi piirissä tapahtuu.
Kirjoitit:
Et siis vielkään ole lukenut yhtään tässä threadissa olevaa viestiä. Jos olisit lukenut, niin huomaisit että moniavioisuus on mormonismissa=pedofilia.
Itse ilmeisesti olet lukenut vaan et ymmärtänyt.
Kaikki mormonit EIVÄT ole MAP-Kirkon jäseniä.
Ja se moniavioisuus mitä nykyään "mormonit" harjoittavat" ei välttämättä ole sitä mitä harjoitettiin 1800-luvulla.
Kristinuskonkin piirissä tapahtuu järkyttäviä asioita mutta eivät kaikki kristyt ole esim ev-lut kirkkoon kuuluvia? Toivottavasti et "järkyttynyt" tästä totuudesta?
Kirjoitit myös:
Harjoitetaanko mormonismissa pedofiliaa vai ei? Tosiasiat vastaavat= Kyllä!
VAIN osa mormoneista sitä tekee, ei MAP-Kirkon jäsenet....
Voisit vähän enemmän opiskella vaikka sitä kuinka vanahana eri kulttureissa mentiin naimisiin (aikajaksoona vaikka 1000-1900, luulisin tuolta löytyvät tarpeeksi esimerkkejä...) ym. aineistoa ja sitten voidaan keskustella että mikä on sopivaa ja mikä pedofiliaa...
Tässä on nyt vaan menty sille linjalle että yksi huutaa "pedofiili" ja loput hyppivät perässä. Itse asiaa syvemmin pohtimaata, näin yleisesti sanottuna. Kukaan ei ole halukas esim. keskustelemaan siitä mikä on oikea avioitumisikä (ja missä kulttuurissa), tai siitä että milloin ihminen on kypsä jatkamaan sukua. VOuhotetaan vaan 2000-luvun tyyliä, ja unohdetaan eikä ymmärretä millaista elämä oli 1800-luvun alun ameriikassa esim....
Tulipahan sanottua. Halukkaita keskustelemaan asiallisesti ko. aiheesta?
Kirjoitit:
Huomionarvoista on että Zappa nikki kehottaa ihmisiä hyväksymään moniavioisuuden meilläkin täällä vaikka se on Suomenlakien mukaan rikos...
.....
Puolustaessasi moniavioisuutta, ei ole kaukana rikokseen yllyttäminen.
minulla on viestisi tallessa.
Erittäin kaukana.
Jopa niin kaukana että USA:ssa moniavioisuus saatiin perustuslakiin laittomana vasta siinä 1800-luvun ihan lopussa... Monta lakia jouduttiin säätään kun USA:n viranomaiset eivät edes ymmärätäneet mistä oli kysymys...
Ja Kanadassa virnaomaiset eivät NIMENOMAAN halua pistää tuota yhteisöä syyteeseen koska Kanadana perustuslaissa tuota "laittomuutta" EI ole mainittu... Sehän luki siinä postaamssasi artikkelissä ihan selvästi.
No postaa se viesti (tai linkki siihen) sitten.
Ihan haluan itsekkin lukea sen ja jos todella niin olen sanonut, niin sitten myönnän erehdykseni.
Moniavioisuus on Kanadassa laitonta. Mutta viranomaiset eivät ole toistaiseksi voineet puuttua asiaan, koska Kanadan uskonnonvapauslaki suojelee heitä. Osasyynä viranomaisten vaikeuteen puuttua mormonien laittomuuksiin, on myös se että monen mormonikaupungin johtohenkilöt ovat myös itse mormoneja.
Pysytäänpä nyt Suomessa kuitenkin. Oletan että olet suomalainen ja Suomen kansalainen. Oletko?
Suomessa moniavoisuus on laitonta, eli Suomen lain mukaan rikollista. Kun puolustat ja suosittelet moniavioisuutta, yllytät Suomen lain mukaan tulkittuna, rikokseen. Se on hyvin lähellä, varo vain!
äkillinen muistinmenetys?
Kirjoitit:
Moniavioisuus on Kanadassa laitonta.
Itse ko. artikkeli kyllä antoi ymmärtää että viranonmaiset eivät asiaan halua puuttua koska Kanadan korkein oikeus voikin todeta että ko. laki on "laiton". Silloin on tilanne jossa on olemasa laki, mutta sitä ei tarvitse noudattaa... Mitä siitä seuraa...
Ja olen suomalainen. Moniavioisuuden puollustaminen, siten kun sitä harjoitettiin 1800-luvulla ei ole rikos. Ja missä olen suositellut móniavioisuutta? Olenko sanonut "Menkää kaikki naimisiin useamman naisen kanssa?" vai "minusta moniavioisuus on ok?"... Edellinen voitaisiin tulkita laittomuudeksi, mutta jälkimmäistä ei voida.
Ja itseasiassa kun kyseessä on uskonnollisen vapauteen liittyvä asia joka ei loukaa ao. henkilöitä, niin kyseessä ei ole rikos.
Suurempia rikoksia on tällä palstalla viimeaikoina kyllä tehty, loukkaamalla tekijänoikeuksia, postaamalla kokonaisia artikkeileita varmasti ilman lupaa, miksi esim. jaana tai joku muu ole tuohon puuttunut? Vaikka toimiikin "lehtialalla"?
Puolustaa sanassa on yksi l-kirjain heh!
Hyvä että koljasit.
Esitä sinä sitten se linkki.
Niinkuin ystävällisesti jenkeissa sanotaan "Put up or SHUT UP".
Niin,... iskikö sinuun äkillinen muistinmenetys?
aina silloin tällöin tulee kauhu uutisia, joiden todellinen aiheuttaja on joko MAP kirkosta erotettu tai eronnut fundamentalistinen ryhmä, jotka käyttävät mormoni nimitystä. Luulisin tässäkin nimenomaisessa tapauksessa olevan kysymyksessä juuri tällainen ryhmittymä.
Sellaisen käsityksen tuosta saan ulkopuolisena.
Eikö tämäntyyppisiä asioita voitaisi yleensäkin käsitellä hieman tutkivampaan sävyyn, jolloin kaikki saisivat jotakin niistä irti. Syytöksiä harvoin voidaan suoraa perustaa yksittäiseen lehtijuttuun. Oikeassa valossa esiintuotuna lehtijuttukin voi olla aivan hyvä alustuksen aihe.
ainoa valojota tämä kirkko perinjuurin tarvitsee on totuuden valo!
Mitäpä tekemistä on pimeydellä valon kanssa?
Mietin tässä, että vaikutat viesteistäsi päätellen itse jonkin fundamentalistisesti kiihkoilevan uskonryhmittymän jäseneltä=) Mihin uskontoon itse lukeudut? Yleensä noin kovasti sylki roiskuen ovat aiemmin kokemuksieni perusteella puhuneet lähinnä fanaattisimmat helluntailaiset=)
UPDATE ON SEXUAL ABUSE CASES
By Jerald & Sandra Tanner
(This article originally appeared in The Salt Lake City Messenger, Issue No. 92, April, 1997)
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In the November 1996 issue of the Salt Lake City Messenger we reported that Cherese Franklin was awarded $750,000 in damages in a sexual abuse case involving repressed memories. On appeal this case was overturned by a judge in Salt Lake City.
In our last newsletter we discussed the problem of child sexual abuse committed by bishops and other important leaders in the Mormon Church. Recently we received another letter from a woman reporting that she was abused by her father: "Some of your research is being sent to a related attorney regarding the Beckly W. VA. [case] Sad! My bishop father sexually abused me. I know about the damage."
Significantly, two other cases of sexual abuse involving prominent Mormons have recently come to light.
1--Lloyd Gerald Pond, 51, was originally charged with two counts of forcible sodomy on a 14-year-old girl he met at a Mormon ward. Pond was employed by the Mormon Church's public-relations department and "hosted a weekly nationwide radio program that promoted Mormon values..." (Salt Lake Tribune, Feb. 4, 1997) Many people were publicly complaining that Pond would only get a slap on the wrist because he was a well-known Mormon. Fortunately, this turned out not to be the case. The Tribune reported: "Ignoring recommendations for probation, a 3rd District judge sent confessed child sex abuser Lloyd Gerald Pond to prison for up to 15 years." Ironically, Pond's radio work for the church included warnings "about the evils of child abuse and pornography..." (Ibid., Nov. 16, 1996)
2--The Idaho Falls Post Register reported the following on November 13, 1996: "A former state senator [Rex Furness] will be spending the next two months in jail for sexually battering his teenage granddaughter.... Furness will serve 60 days in the county jail, starting next week, and seven years probation....
"He was also very active in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, holding various titles, including bishop until he confessed the acts to his church and surrendered his temple recommend.
"What he did not say in court was that the charge against him forced him to resign from the state senate."
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Other articles from this issue of the Salt Lake City Messenger:
Sealing Men to Men: An Early Mormon Doctrine Known as the "ordinance of adoption," many Latter-day Saint men and their family members were "sealed" to prominent Church leaders in the 1800s in the hopes of obtaining a better position in this life and the life to come. Historian Juanita Brooks stated, ". . . The idea behind it was that in establishing the Kingdom of God upon the earth there should be also a celestial relationship. If the prophet Joseph Smith were to become a God over a minor planet, he must not only have a large posterity but able assistants of practical skills. Brigham Young had been 'sealed' to Joseph under this law; now he in turn had some thirty-eight young men sealed to him." (John D. Lee: Zealot--Pioneer--Builder--Scapegoat, page 73) This "Gospel Principle" very quickly developed into a system of jealousy and animosity between leaders as they "electioneered" to build their "families" and eternal kingdoms. "Sealing Men to Men" is a fascinating--sometimes shocking look at the 1800s version of "families are forever" not heard of by most modern church members.
Mormon Blood Atonement: Fact or Fantasy? Brigham Young taught that there were certain sins not covered by the Atonement of Christ. In a speech given in 1856 he told the Latter-day Saints, "It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins through the fall and those committed by men, yet men can commit sins which it can never remit . . . they must be atoned for by the blood of the man." (JD, Vol. 4, pages 53-54) Within a year he encouraged faithful church members to assist in this process: "All mankind love themselves, and let these principles be known by an individual, and he would be glad to have his blood shed. That would be loving themselves, even unto an eternal exaltation. Will you love your brothers and sisters likewise, when they have committed a sin that cannot be atoned for without the shedding of their blood? Will you love that man or woman well enough to shed their blood?.... This is loving our neighbor as ourselves; if he needs help, help him; and if he wants salvation and it is necessary to spill his blood on the earth in order that he may be saved, spill it...." (JD, Vol. 4, pages 219-220) Are these quotes out of context? What were these sins that Young referred to? Did the Latter-day Saints obey their leader's council? "Mormon Blood Atonement: Fact or Fantasy," answers these questions, and gives references to many early books, diaries, journals and newspaper articles that document the practice.
A Response To Foster. In the last Salt Lake City Messenger (November, 1996), the Tanner's published a letter sent to them by historian Dr. Lawrence Foster. Foster stated his displeasure over what he claims was their misrepresentation of his study on "complex psychological dynamics" and how they apply to the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith. "A Response To Foster," addresses Foster's charges.
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Other Related Links:
Mormonism's Problem with Child Sexual Abuse--Salt Lake City Messenger, November, 1996: A disturbing look at how the Mormon church's ecclesiastical and community social structure may hide and assist sex offenders. Revealing information from several sources including the Mormon Alliance, an watch-dog organization formed by members and ex-members for the purpose of countering "spiritual and ecclesiastical abuse in the Church."--Topics also include revealing statements by LDS leaders--polygamy--George P. Lee--and evidence of ritualistic abuse.
Polygamy and Truth-- Salt Lake City Messenger, January 1988: An overview of the origins and history of Mormon Polygamy from its inception, through a United States Senate Investigation at the turn of the century, and on to present times. Included in this exploration are: the "first" and "second" manifestos issued by LDS prophets--Church deception against federal authorities--the Reed Soot investigation--"sealing" already married women to early church leaders--women sealed to more than one living husband at a time--interesting methods of divorce--many quotes from church leaders teaching polygamy as "essential to salvation"--polygamy in the western United States today--and more.
The New Polygamy-- Chapter XVII of Frank J. Cannon's, Under The Prophet In Utah, 1911 edition: Cannon describes the devastating effect post-1890 manifesto plural marriages had on the wives and children of the polygamist priesthood holder. He also describes how, and under what circumstances, many of these secret "sealings" were performed.
What Mormon Women Felt About Polygamy
(All of the following are excerpts from "Mormon Polygamy: A History", by LDS Author Richard S. Van Wagoner, Chapter 9, "Women in Polygamy")
1. Did Mormon Women Really Have a Choice to Accept or Reject Polygamy?
The process for exempting a wife from the "law of Sarah" is outlined in the 1843 revelation on the law of polygamy in Doctrine & Covenants 132:64-65
64 And again, verily, verily, I say unto you, if any man have a wife, who holds the keys of this power, and he teaches unto her the [plural wife] law of my priesthood, as pertaining to these things, then shall she believe and administer unto him, or she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord your God; for I will destroy her; for I will magnify my name upon all those who receive and abide in my law.
65 Therefore, it shall be lawful in me, if she receive not this law [of polygamy], for him to receive all things whatsoever I, the Lord his God, will give unto him, because she did not believe and administer unto him according to my word; and she then becomes the transgressor; and he is exempt from the law of Sarah, who administered unto Abraham according to the law when I commanded Abraham to take Hagar to wife.
Apostle Orson Pratt also explained this clause in the law of celestial marriage:
"When a man who has a wife, teaches her the law of God, and she refuses to give her consent for him to marry another according to that law, then, it becomes necessary, for her to state before the President the reasons why she withholds her consent; if her reasons are sufficient and justifiable and the husband is found in the fault, or in transgression, then, he is not permitted to take any step in regard to obtaining another. But if the wife can show no good reason why she refuses to comply with the law which was given unto Sarah of old, then it is lawful for her husband, if permitted by revelation through the prophet, to be married to others without her consent, and he will be justified, and she will be condemned, because she did not give them unto him, as Sarah gave Hagar to Abraham, and as Rachel and Leah gave Bilhah and Zilpah to their husband, Jacob." (The Seer, Vol.1, No.3, p.41)
When cross-examined during the Reed Smoot hearings, church president Joseph F. Smith gave the official church position on the necessity of a wife's consent to polygamy:
President Smith: The condition is that if she does not consent the Lord will destroy her, but I do not know how he will do it.
Question: Is it not true that ... if she refuses her consent her husband is exempt from the law which requires her consent.
President Smith: Yes; he is exempt from the law which requires her consent. She is commanded to consent, but if she does not, then he is exempt from the requirement.
Question: Then he is at liberty to proceed without her consent, under the law. In other words, her consent amounts to nothing?
President Smith: It amounts to nothing but her consent.
In 1875 Apostle Wilford Woodruff announced, "We have many bishops and elders who have but one wife. They are abundantly qualified to enter the higher law and take more, but their wives will not let them. Any man who permits a woman to lead him and bind him down is but little account in the church and Kingdom of God."
Brigham Young declared "Let the father be the head of the family … and let the wives and the children say amen to what he says, and be subject to his dictates, instead of their dictating the man, instead of trying to govern him."
2. Women Felt Obligated to Accept Polygamy
"Many may think it very strange that I would consent for my dear husband, whom I loved as I did my own life and lived with him for years, to take more wives," wrote Sarah D. Rich, wife of Apostle Charles C. Rich. "This I could not have done if I had not believed it to be right in the Sight of god, and believed it to be one principal of his gospel once again restored to earth, that those holding the priesthood of heaven might by obeying this order attain to a higher glory in the eternal world." (spelling corrected)
Annie Clark Tanner was similarly certain that "women would never have accepted polygamy had it not been for their religion. The principle of Celestial Marriage was considered the capstone of the Mormon religion. Only by practicing it would the highest exaltation in the Celestial Kingdom of God be obtained."
George S. Tanner, prominent Utah educator and polygamous son, reasoned: "I doubt there was a woman in the church who was in any way connected with Polygamy who was not heartsick. They would not admit it in public because of their loyalty to the church and their brothers and sisters." Tanner was persuaded that "the women try to be brave, but no woman is able to share a husband whom she loves with one or more other women. Only a few of the women involved in polygamy asked for a divorce simply because it was not a popular thing to do."
Mrs. Hubert Howe Bancroft, a prominent visitor to Salt Lake City in 1880, commented on the ability of polygamous women to maintain appearances. She observed that Mormon women viewed polygamy as "a religious duty and schooled themselves to bear its discomforts as a sort of religious penance, and that it was a matter of pride to make everybody believe they lived happily and to persuade themselves and others that it was not a trial; and that long life of such discipline makes the trial lighter."
3. What Mormon Women Really Felt About Polygamy
Phebe Woodruff
Phebe Woodruff, first wife of Apostle Wilford Woodruff, also shared the ambivalent feelings of Mormon women in polygamy. Called upon to defend the principle in a mass meeting of Mormon women, Phebe bore testimony that "If I am proud of anything in this world, it is that I accepted the principle of plural marriage, and remained among the people called 'Mormons' and am numbered with them to-day." A few days later in a conversation with a long-time friend she was asked, "How is it Sister Woodruff that you have changed your views so suddenly about polygamy? I thought you hated and loathed the institution." "I have not changed," was her response: "I loathe the unclean thing with all the strength of my nature, but Sister, I have suffered all that a woman can endure. I am old and helpless, and would rather stand up anywhere, and say anything commanded of me, than to be turned out of my home in my old age which I should be most assuredly if I refused to obey counsel."
Mary Ann Angell Young
Mary Ann Angell Young, Brigham Young's second wife, was a patient, uncomplaining woman. But even she reportedly remarked to a friend, "God will be very cruel if he does not give us poor women adequate compensation for the trials we have endured in polygamy."
The highly favored Emmeline Free Young experienced, as Mary Ann put it, "the torments of the damned" over being displaced by Brigham's younger wife, Amelia Folsom. When a friend asked one of Mary Ann's daughters if it did not grieve her mother to see Young's devotion to his new wife, she replied, "Mother does not care. She is past being grieved by his conduct, but, on the other hand, it gives her most intense satisfaction to see Emmeline suffer as she does. She can understand now what mother had to undergo in past years. In fact, all the women are glad that Emmeline is getting her turn at last."
Zina D. Jacobs Smith Young
When a woman whose husband had taken a second wife went to Zina in great anguish of mind to ask, "Does the fault lie in myself that I am so miserable; or is the system to blame for it?" Zina reportedly replied, "Sister, you are not to blame, neither are you the only woman who is suffering torments on account of polygamy. There are women in this very house [Brigham Young's] whose hearts are full of hell, and in that room … is a woman who has been a perfect fury ever since Brother Young married Sister Amelia Folsom. Brigham Young dare not enter that room or she would tear his eyes out. It is the system that is to blame for it, but we must try and be as patient as we can."
Zina was quoted in the 19 November 1869 New York World. "They expect too much attention from the husband, and because they do not get it, or see a little attention bestowed upon one of the other wives, they become sullen and morose, and permit their ill-temper to finally find vent." Zina felt that "a successful polygamous wife must regard her husband with indifference, and with no other feeling than that of reverence, for love we regard as a false sentiment; a feeling which should have no existence in polygamy."
Vilate Kimball
Vilate Kimball, first wife of Heber C. Kimball, also recognized the value of romantic distance in a plural marriage. Counseling an unhappy plural wife, she advised the woman that "her comfort must be wholly in her children; that she must lay aside wholly all interest or thought in what her husband was doing while he was away from her" and be as "pleased to see him when he came in as she was pleased to see any friend."
Sarah Pratt
Sarah Pratt insisted that the first wife "should be it, and resented her husband's affections toward his other wives. Being away from home on church assignment was a hallmark of dedication for Mormon males, and during the years 1839-68, Orson Pratt was absent from his home for a total of nearly eleven years. Thirteen children were born during this period. Death took many, and other hands than Orson's usually buried them.
Ultimately Pratt's preoccupation with church work and his habit of marrying much younger women dealt a fatal blow to his relationship with Sarah. After returning from England in early 1868, the fifty-seven-year-old man began courting a sixteen-year-old girl who would become his tenth wife on 28 December 1868. At fifty-one, Sarah could no longer bear children, and she had come to resent bitterly Pratt's relationships with women younger than their oldest daughter. In an 1877 interview she lashed out at him. "Here was my husband," she said, "gray headed, taking to his bed young girls in mockery of marriage. Of course there could be no joy for him in such an intercourse except the indulgence of his fanaticism and of something else, perhaps, which I hesitate to mention."
Sarah castigated polygamy as the "direst curse with which a people or a nation could be afflicted. It completely demoralizes good men, and makes bad men correspondingly worse. As for the women—well, God help them! First wives it renders desperate, or else heart-broken, mean-spirited creatures; and it almost unsexes some of the other women, but not all of them, for plural wives have their sorrows too."
Martha Hughes Cannon
Dr. Martha Hughes Cannon, twenty-seven-year-old resident physician at Deseret Hospital in Salt Lake City and later the first female state senator in the United States, became the third plural wife of fifty-year-old Angus Cannon, Salt Lake City stake president and one of Deseret Hospital's directors. She described her polygamous marriage as "a few stolen interviews thoroughly tinctured with the dread of discovery." In a 3 February 1888 letter to her husband while she was in Europe, she wrote that the trials of polygamy would be unendurable without "a thorough knowledge from God, that the principle for which we are battling and striving to maintain in purity upon the earth is ordained by Him, and that we are chosen instruments in His hands to engage in so great a calling." She added that "even with this assurance grounded in one's heart, we do not escape trials and temptations, grievious at times in their nature."
Martha was acquainted with several monogamous families and yearned for an exclusive relationship. She described such a marriage as "a joy and comfort to witness, where the wife and Mother is proud and happy in the devotion of a noble husband, while he in turn is equally contented and happy in the possession of the partner he has chosen for life; while at home in each other's association is where their greatest joys are centered." "Oh for a home!" she lamented in a 30 December 1891 letter to Angus: "A husband of my own because he is my own. A father for my children whom they know by association. And all the little auxiliaries that make life worth living. Will they ever be enjoyed by this storm-tossed exile. Or must life thus drift on and one more victim swell the ranks of the great unsatisfied!"
Martha wrote her polygamous husband: "How do you think I feel when I meet you driving another plural wife about in a glittering carriage in broad day light? I am entirely out of money—borrowing to pay some old standing debts. I want our affairs speedily and absolutely adjusted—after all my sacrifice and loss you treat me like a dog—and parade others before my eyes—I will not stand it."
Sadie Jacobs
"If anyone in this world thinks plural marriage is not a trial," Sadie Jacobson said, "they are wrong. The Lord said he would have a tried people."
Daughter of Jedediah M. Grant
"Polygamy is alright when properly carried out—on a shovel."
Emmeline B. Wells
Emmeline's marriage to Daniel was unhappy. "O, if my husband could only love me even a little and not seem to be perfectly indifferent to any sensation of that kind," she wrote in her 30 September 1874 diary. "He cannot know the craving of my nature; he is surrounded with love on every side, and I am cast out.… O my poor aching heart when shall it rest its burden only on the Lord.… Every other avenue seems closed against me." On their twenty second wedding anniversary she wrote in her diary, "Anniversary of my marriage with Pres. Wells. O how happy I was then how much pleasure I anticipated and how changed alas are things since that time, how few thoughts I had then have ever been realized, and how much sorrow I have known in place of the joy I looked forward to."
http://fi.altavista.com/web/results?tlb=1&kgs=0&ienc=utf8&q=mormonism polygamy sexual child abuse
Daniel Peterson, APOLOGIZE THIS - Child Brides!
Date: May 03 22:04 2003
Author: Troy
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Polygamy and Mormonism are inseparably entwined. One of the most offensive aspects of Mormon-based polygamy is the rampant practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. This is precisely what Brian David Mitchell did when he abducted Elizabeth Smart. In the western United States, there are at least 30,000 people involved in the practice of Mormon-based polygamy. In these polygamous groups, the compulsion for underage girls to marry polygamists--usually men much older than themselves--is a part of everyday life. In these communities, girls as young as 12 or 13 are often married off to priesthood leaders. The most powerful and influential of these priesthood holders have first pick of the girls. Parents of the young girls submit their daughters willingly into these unions with the hope of being blessed by God in their afterlife.
One asks, where did this practice come from? Why do these offenders take such young girls as wives? What does Mormon doctrine have to do with this?
These are indeed puzzling questions, but the answers are simple. The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith Jr. set the precedent for this behavior.
Smith married several underage girls himself. The most notorious example of this is in the case of Helen Mar Kimball. Young Helen married Smith in May, 1843. She was 14 years old; the same age as Elizabeth Smart was at the time of her abduction. Helen’s father, Heber Chase Kimball gave his daughter to Smith as a token of his unquestioning devotion. In return, Smith promised that this union would seal up the salvation of the Kimball family. Smith didn’t use a knife to coerce this young girl, he used the weapon he was most adept at using, psychological manipulation.
I acknowledge that these accusations are extraordinary, but evidence that this event took place is well documented, as is evidence of Smith’s marriage to several other underage child brides. It can by found at this website, which is sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
http://www.familysearch.org
Do a search on Joseph Smith. There are many entries under this name. Be sure to select the one who was born Dec. 23, 1805, and died Jun. 27, 1844. His parents’ names were Joseph Smith (Sr.) and Lucy Mack. Scroll down to MARRIAGES to see a list of many of Smith’s wives. To find out the ages of the wives, click on their respective names. Be sure to click on Helen Mar Kimball. One will see that in May, 1843, at the time of her marriage to Smith, she was 14 years old.
There is profound ignorance of these facts among the rank-and-file members of the LDS Church. The leaders of this church actively pretend that polygamy never existed. Today they provide educational pamphlets for their members that portray Smith, Brigham Young, and several other early presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as monogamous. Many members of the LDS Church don’t even believe that the founder of their church was a polygamist, let alone a man who filled his harem with underage girls as young as 14.
The LDS Church discontinued the practice of polygamy in 1890, but this was only a move to relieve pressure that was placed on them by the US Government. It was also a move toward the goal of establishing statehood for Utah. The practice was discontinued, but the doctrine is still in place and can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132. This is canonized LDS scripture. I recommend that anyone interested in this phenomenon read this piece of LDS scripture. Here is the link to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132:
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132
The LDS Church finds itself in a serious dilemma by refusing to repudiate this doctrine, an act that would seriously undermine the alleged divine calling of their founder and expose him for the sexual predator he really was. But by allowing this doctrine to remain in canonized form within their holy scriptures, they are allowing a hideous practice to continue unchallenged. Extremely devout members find themselves very troubled when they study the practice of polygamy according to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, who was also the man who established the precedent for not only practicing polygamy, but taking underage girls as polygamous wives. These devout members find themselves in serious trouble with the LDS Church hierarchy when they start looking into this doctrine. Expressing a belief in this doctrine is a sure-fire way to get oneself excommunicated. After finding themselves excommunicated, inevitably these devout Mormons get involved in Mormon Fundamentalism, the current religious movement in which Mormon-based polygamy is held to be a sacred doctrine. The ranks of Mormon Fundamentalist groups are swelling rapidly as a result of their inherent fecundity, and also because of the steady stream of devout, but disaffected Mormons who are leaving the LDS Church to join with them.
One now must undoubtedly be asking, how could the LDS Church possibly change this trend? I propose two solutions:
First, the leaders of the LDS Church need to repudiate this doctrine and permanently strike it from their canonized scripture. This will cast Joseph Smith in an unfavorable light, but this will be the honest thing to do. Only by completely repudiating the practice of polygamy, and condemning this practice even by Joseph Smith, will they ever have a chance of holding back the tide of disaffected members leaving the church to get involved in Mormon Fundamentalism. Until they do this, devout members will continue to take this doctrine seriously and there will continue to be a potential for the formation of the mindset we see with Brian David Mitchell, Elizabeth Smart’s abductor.
The second solution should be understood with the realization that the LDS Church is the most powerful political force in Utah. Unofficially speaking, Utah is the quintessential American theocracy. Even the governor of the state, Mike Leavitt owes his personal loyalty to the LDS Church first and foremost. As a member of the LDS Church, this is his obligation. Considering their immense political power in this state, the leaders of the LDS Church need to actively speak out against the practice of polygamy, without fear of bad publicity, which has hindered their involvement thus far. The crimes taking place in polygamous communities are largely ignored by Utah law enforcement. It is frequently suggested that the LDS Church discourages prosecution within these groups because this inevitably brings them embarrassment when polygamy is in the headlines. This negative publicity frustrates their attempts to ignore polygamy, in the hopes that it will be forgotten by the world. But there is little they can do to avoid bad publicity when polygamy puts Utah in the world spotlight, as has happened with the abduction of Elizabeth Smart. The LDS Church needs to encourage the Utah State government to prosecute the abuses that take place daily in the Mormon Fundamentalist communities without fear of negative publicity.
Mormon-based polygamy contains within it the insidious practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. If this isn’t child sexual abuse, what is? These crimes need to be aggressively prosecuted today. Until this happens, young girls will continue to be victims of this form of child sexual abuse. The LDS Church needs to take responsibility for introducing this practice to America. They need to publicly denounce the actions of their founder. If this doesn’t happen soon, we will be left to speculate as to how much worse this problem will become in the future. Today, the abuses inherent to Mormon-based polygamy are worse than ever. Under the current level of action, this trend will continue.
For more information on child polygamist brides, see this website:
http://www.helpthechildbrides.com
touhua ei voi muuta tuumia.
Zappa hyvä olet todellakin hoidon tarpeessa oleva ihminen!
http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?id=478298&CategoryID=245503
Kirjoitit lainaten:
Smith, she was 14 years old
melkein 15....
Ja missä todiste sukupuoliyhteydestä? .....
Polygamy and Mormonism are inseparably entwined. One of the most offensive aspects of Mormon-based polygamy is the rampant practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. This is precisely what Brian David Mitchell did when he abducted Elizabeth Smart. In the western United States, there are at least 30,000 people involved in the practice of Mormon-based polygamy. In these polygamous groups, the compulsion for underage girls to marry polygamists--usually men much older than themselves--is a part of everyday life. In these communities, girls as young as 12 or 13 are often married off to priesthood leaders. The most powerful and influential of these priesthood holders have first pick of the girls. Parents of the young girls submit their daughters willingly into these unions with the hope of being blessed by God in their afterlife.
One asks, where did this practice come from? Why do these offenders take such young girls as wives? What does Mormon doctrine have to do with this?
These are indeed puzzling questions, but the answers are simple. The founder of Mormonism, Joseph Smith Jr. set the precedent for this behavior.
Smith married several underage girls himself. The most notorious example of this is in the case of Helen Mar Kimball. Young Helen married Smith in May, 1843. She was 14 years old; the same age as Elizabeth Smart was at the time of her abduction. Helen’s father, Heber Chase Kimball gave his daughter to Smith as a token of his unquestioning devotion. In return, Smith promised that this union would seal up the salvation of the Kimball family. Smith didn’t use a knife to coerce this young girl, he used the weapon he was most adept at using, psychological manipulation.
I acknowledge that these accusations are extraordinary, but evidence that this event took place is well documented, as is evidence of Smith’s marriage to several other underage child brides. It can by found at this website, which is sponsored by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
http://www.familysearch.org
Do a search on Joseph Smith. There are many entries under this name. Be sure to select the one who was born Dec. 23, 1805, and died Jun. 27, 1844. His parents’ names were Joseph Smith (Sr.) and Lucy Mack. Scroll down to MARRIAGES to see a list of many of Smith’s wives. To find out the ages of the wives, click on their respective names. Be sure to click on Helen Mar Kimball. One will see that in May, 1843, at the time of her marriage to Smith, she was 14 years old.
There is profound ignorance of these facts among the rank-and-file members of the LDS Church. The leaders of this church actively pretend that polygamy never existed. Today they provide educational pamphlets for their members that portray Smith, Brigham Young, and several other early presidents of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as monogamous. Many members of the LDS Church don’t even believe that the founder of their church was a polygamist, let alone a man who filled his harem with underage girls as young as 14.
The LDS Church discontinued the practice of polygamy in 1890, but this was only a move to relieve pressure that was placed on them by the US Government. It was also a move toward the goal of establishing statehood for Utah. The practice was discontinued, but the doctrine is still in place and can be found in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132. This is canonized LDS scripture. I recommend that anyone interested in this phenomenon read this piece of LDS scripture. Here is the link to Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132:
http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/132
The LDS Church finds itself in a serious dilemma by refusing to repudiate this doctrine, an act that would seriously undermine the alleged divine calling of their founder and expose him for the sexual predator he really was. But by allowing this doctrine to remain in canonized form within their holy scriptures, they are allowing a hideous practice to continue unchallenged. Extremely devout members find themselves very troubled when they study the practice of polygamy according to Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, who was also the man who established the precedent for not only practicing polygamy, but taking underage girls as polygamous wives. These devout members find themselves in serious trouble with the LDS Church hierarchy when they start looking into this doctrine. Expressing a belief in this doctrine is a sure-fire way to get oneself excommunicated. After finding themselves excommunicated, inevitably these devout Mormons get involved in Mormon Fundamentalism, the current religious movement in which Mormon-based polygamy is held to be a sacred doctrine. The ranks of Mormon Fundamentalist groups are swelling rapidly as a result of their inherent fecundity, and also because of the steady stream of devout, but disaffected Mormons who are leaving the LDS Church to join with them.
One now must undoubtedly be asking, how could the LDS Church possibly change this trend? I propose two solutions:
First, the leaders of the LDS Church need to repudiate this doctrine and permanently strike it from their canonized scripture. This will cast Joseph Smith in an unfavorable light, but this will be the honest thing to do. Only by completely repudiating the practice of polygamy, and condemning this practice even by Joseph Smith, will they ever have a chance of holding back the tide of disaffected members leaving the church to get involved in Mormon Fundamentalism. Until they do this, devout members will continue to take this doctrine seriously and there will continue to be a potential for the formation of the mindset we see with Brian David Mitchell, Elizabeth Smart’s abductor.
The second solution should be understood with the realization that the LDS Church is the most powerful political force in Utah. Unofficially speaking, Utah is the quintessential American theocracy. Even the governor of the state, Mike Leavitt owes his personal loyalty to the LDS Church first and foremost. As a member of the LDS Church, this is his obligation. Considering their immense political power in this state, the leaders of the LDS Church need to actively speak out against the practice of polygamy, without fear of bad publicity, which has hindered their involvement thus far. The crimes taking place in polygamous communities are largely ignored by Utah law enforcement. It is frequently suggested that the LDS Church discourages prosecution within these groups because this inevitably brings them embarrassment when polygamy is in the headlines. This negative publicity frustrates their attempts to ignore polygamy, in the hopes that it will be forgotten by the world. But there is little they can do to avoid bad publicity when polygamy puts Utah in the world spotlight, as has happened with the abduction of Elizabeth Smart. The LDS Church needs to encourage the Utah State government to prosecute the abuses that take place daily in the Mormon Fundamentalist communities without fear of negative publicity.
Mormon-based polygamy contains within it the insidious practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. If this isn’t child sexual abuse, what is? These crimes need to be aggressively prosecuted today. Until this happens, young girls will continue to be victims of this form of child sexual abuse. The LDS Church needs to take responsibility for introducing this practice to America. They need to publicly denounce the actions of their founder. If this doesn’t happen soon, we will be left to speculate as to how much worse this problem will become in the future. Today, the abuses inherent to Mormon-based polygamy are worse than ever. Under the current level of action, this trend will continue.
For more information on child polygamist brides, see this website:
http://www.helpthechildbrides.com
On sulla kumma tapa postata sama uudestaan.
Taitaakin olla spammiä.
Olen lukenut ja mitään todistetta kysymykseeni ei ole esitetty...? Onko sinulla sellaista?
Jos ymmärtäisit lukemaasi, etkä kysyisi typeryyksiä, ei minunkaan tarvitsisi postata samaa tekstiä monta kertaa uudestaan.
Mormon-based polygamy contains within it the insidious practice of taking underage girls as polygamous wives. If this isn’t child sexual abuse, what is? These crimes need to be aggressively prosecuted today. Until this happens, young girls will continue to be victims of this form of child sexual abuse. The LDS Church needs to take responsibility for introducing this practice to America. They need to publicly denounce the actions of their founder. If this doesn’t happen soon, we will be left to speculate as to how much worse this problem will become in the future. Today, the abuses inherent to Mormon-based polygamy are worse than ever. Under the current level of action, this trend will continue.
For more information on child polygamist brides, see this website:
Käy myös tuolla ->
http://www.helpthechildbrides.com
En todellakaan kysy tyhmiä.
Ja vaikka kysyisinkin niin se ei oikeuta postaamaan kokonaisia artikkeileita, joita on HELPOMPI lukea sen linkin takaa...
Tuossa sanotaan:
The LDS Church needs to take responsibility for introducing this practice to America. They need to publicly denounce the actions of their founder.
Kumpaankin vastaus on ei tarvitse.... Itse onagelmahan ei ole moniavioisuus vaan lasten hyväksikäyttö. Ameriikassa kun on tapana että jokin järjestö/yritys katsotaan syylliseksi asioihin.. Mikä taas ei eurooppalaisen / suomalaiseen oikeuskäytäntöön sovi.
Se että keksin sakset, tekee siis minusta kanssarikollisen siitä jos joku tappaa jonkun saksilla?
Moniavioisuushan on ikivanha asia. Ja Lähi-Idän maissa sitä harjoitetaan ihan avoimesti (samloin afrikassa), onko siellä ongelmaa pedofiliasta? Miksi on tai ei ole?
Tyhmää kysymystä ei muuten ole olemassa, on vain tyhmiä vastauksia...
Ja miten lasten hyväksikäyttö ilmenee tässä tapauksessa? -Moniavioisuutena. Ja miten mormonien moniavioisuus ilnenee tässä tapauksessa? -Pedofiliana.
Mormonien moniavioisuus ja lasten hyväksikäyttö ovat kytköksissä toisiinsa ja ilmenevät samanaikaisesti.
Lasten seksuaalinen hyväksikäyttö on jo sinällään järkyttävää, vielä kauhistuttavampaa siitä tekee se että mormonit harjoittavat sitä uskonnon varjolla ja Jeesuksen nimessä.
Miten voit puolustaa tuollaista? Minkälainen hirviö sinä oikein olet?
Väitit kerran kivenkovaan vastaan että mormonismin moniavoisuus ei tarkoittaisi lasten hyväksikäyttöä ja lapsimorsiamia..
Nyt kuitenkin näemme että väitteesi ei pidä paikkaansa. Joko et tiennyt mitä sanoit, tai tiesit ja valehtelit.
Sillä sehän on se mitä jaana väitti minun tehneen? Siitä tässä on kysymys.
Mutta...
Kirjoitit:
Ja miten lasten hyväksikäyttö ilmenee tässä tapauksessa? -Moniavioisuutena. Ja miten mormonien moniavioisuus ilnenee tässä tapauksessa? -Pedofiliana.
Uudelleen moniaviosuus pedofilia. Ok, mormonien, mutta EI MAP-Kirkon jäsenten.
Kirjoitit:
Mormonien moniavioisuus ja lasten hyväksikäyttö ovat kytköksissä toisiinsa ja ilmenevät samanaikaisesti.
Ok, siis mormonien nykyään, ei MAP-Kirkon jäsenten.
Kirjoitit:
Lasten seksuaalinen hyväksikäyttö on jo sinällään järkyttävää, vielä kauhistuttavampaa siitä tekee se että mormonit harjoittavat sitä uskonnon varjolla ja Jeesuksen nimessä.
Järkyttävää on se että kuka tahansa voi niin tehdä. Moniavioisuus pedofilia.
Kirjoitit:
Miten voit puolustaa tuollaista? Minkälainen hirviö sinä oikein olet?
En puollusta lasten hyväksikäyttö. Moniavioisuus pedofilia. Millaisen hirviön sinusta tekee sen että et ymmärrä selvää suomea?
Kirjoitit:
Väitit kerran kivenkovaan vastaan että mormonismin moniavoisuus ei tarkoittaisi lasten hyväksikäyttöä ja lapsimorsiamia..
Mormonismin 12800-luvulla. Onko sinulla todisteita lasten hyväksikäytöstä. Mitä on hyväksikäyttö ja minkä ikäinen on lapsi? (18-17-16v?) Pohditaampa näitä kysymyksiä ensin...
Kirjoitit:
Nyt kuitenkin näemme että väitteesi ei pidä paikkaansa. Joko et tiennyt mitä sanoit, tai tiesit ja valehtelit.
Väiteeni on että en ole kehoittanut ketään moniavioisuuteen suomessa. Sitä jaana väitti että olen ja nyt kysyn sitä linkkia ko. kirjoitukseeni.
In the last issue of the Salt Lake City Messenger we reported allegations that a satanic cult had taken root in the Mormon Church. This newsletter (Nov. 1991) proved to be the most popular issue we have ever printed. A number of our readers ordered many copies to distribute to their friends. Consequently, we were immediately forced into a second printing of this issue and still have copies available free at our bookstore.
In that issue we photographically reproduced a highly secret memo written by a General Authority of the Mormon Church. This memo was authored by Glenn L. Pace, Second Counselor in the Presiding Bishopric of the church. It is dated July 19, 1990, and is directed to the "Strengthening Church Members Committee" of the Mormon Church. In the memo Pace stated that he had met with "sixty victims" of "ritualistic child abuse," and that "All sixty individuals are members of the Church."
On October 25, 1991, Dawn House reported that church spokesman Don LeFevre confirmed that Glenn Pace had indeed written such a memo:
"The 12-page report was... printed in the November issue of Salt Lake City Messenger, a newsletter published by Jerald and Sandra Tanner...
"Mr. Pace referred calls on the July 1990 memo to the church's public relations department. Spokesman Don LeFevre declined to discuss internal church reports. But he said Mr. Pace had sent a memo on ritualistic child abuse to a committee called the Strengthening Church Members Committee." (Salt Lake Tribune, Oct. 25, 1991)
We had originally turned over a copy of this memo to the Associated Press and were told that if the memo was authentic, a story would be printed. When it appeared that the Associated Press was dragging its heels (almost three months had passed), we felt that we should print it ourselves. We mailed copies of the Messenger to the three major television stations in Salt Lake City, and on Oct. 24, 1991, it became the lead story on the evening news on Channel 4. From what we understand, Paul Murphy, who investigated the story, had been trying to get a statement from the Mormon Church regarding the authenticity of the memo. Just minutes before going on the air, he made one last attempt. He asked a church spokesman if the church was going to deny the authenticity of the memo. The reply was that there would be no denial.
Channel 2, likewise, ran the story on its evening news. Surprisingly, the Mormon Church's own station, KSL (Channel 5), ran the story on its 10 o'clock newscast. It was, in fact, a frank and accurate account of the contents of the memo and of the serious implications for the church. A number of stories concerning satanic ritual abuse and the Mormon Church were presented on all three of the major stations in the days that followed. The day the story broke all three of the television stations showed pictures of the first page of the Salt Lake City Messenger, and this brought a flood of people to our bookstore to pick up copies.
The following day, both the Salt Lake Tribune and the Mormon Church's Deseret News printed the story. Both papers also published additional stories in the days that followed. The Chicago Tribune later sent a reporter, James Coates, to investigate the story. He wrote an article which contained the following:
"SALT LAKE CITY — Top officials of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints say they are investigating reports from members that, as children, they witnessed human sacrifices and suffered 'satanic abuse' at the hands of renegade Mormon-affiliated cliques.
"Glenn L. Pace, a member of the church's three-man presiding bishopric, reported in a memorandum... that he is personally convinced at least 800 church-affiliated Satanists now are practicing occult rituals and devil worship...
"Pace's memo, marked 'Do Not Reproduce' at the top, was made public last week by anti-Mormon crusaders Jerald and Sandra Tanner, who also played a key role in publicizing the so-called 'White Salamander Letter.'
"The letter, which Jerald Tanner exposed as a forgery, made it appear that church founder Joseph Smith had been involved in folk magic...
"The Satanists' ceremonies often are based loosely upon the Mormon church's own rituals, Pace wrote.
" 'For example, the [Mormon church] verbiage and gestures are used in a [satanic] ritualistic ceremony in a very debased and often bloody manner,' he wrote. 'When the victim goes to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories are triggered.' " (Chicago Tribune, Nov. 3, 1991)
This whole matter of ritualistic abuse received additional attention when the television program Inside Edition devoted some time to the subject. This was rather significant because just weeks before the same program had put down some claims of satanic ritualistic abuse in England. Those who produced the program concerning Mormonism seem to have seriously considered Bishop Pace's claims regarding ritualistic abuse.
CHURCH'S REACTION
The Mormon Church has a very good public relations department which carefully protects the church's image. Consequently, we felt that there might be an attempt to sidestep this embarrassing problem. We reasoned that church leaders might try to throw some doubt on the issue by pointing out that although Bishop Pace was very sincere in his research, some psychiatrists and law officials have been very skeptical concerning claims of satanic ritualistic abuse. Instead, however, the church issued a carefully worded statement which provides support for Pace's claims. Just one day after the story concerning Satanism in the Mormon Church was reported on television, the church owned Deseret News reported:
"Officials from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints said Friday they are evaluating reports that satanic cults dedicated to sexually abusing children are operating within the church.
"The issue arose Thursday with television news reports about an internal church memo suggesting that as many as 800 people may be involved in the practice along the Wasatch Front.
" 'Satanic worship and ritualistic abuse are problems that have been around for centuries and are international in scope, said a statement issued Friday by the church public affairs department. 'While they are, numerically, not a problem of major proportions among members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, for those who may be involved they are serious.'
"The church has strived to help local ecclesiastical leaders understand and deal with the issue, the statement said, citing a Sept. 18 message from the First Presidency 'reaffirming their concern about such distasteful practices and encouraging vigilance in detecting and treating situations that may arise.'... Bishop Pace said satanic abusers in Utah 'represent a cross-section of the Mormon culture.' The cults' members, he wrote, may include Young Women and Young Men leaders, bishops, a patriarch, a stake president, temple workers and members of the Tabernacle Choir. The abuses have even taken place in church meeting houses, he said." (Deseret News, October 25, 1991)
It seems reasonable to believe that if Mormon leaders had any serious doubts about the validity of the accusations of satanic abuse in their church, they would have expressed them at that time. Instead, however, they freely admitted there was a problem. It would appear, therefore, that Mormon officials believe that there is a satanic group operating in the church. While their acknowledgement of the problem does not of itself prove the charges, it certainly adds a great deal of weight to the accusations. Mormon Church leaders undoubtedly know a great deal about what goes on within their own church. Bishops, stake presidents and others would be likely to bring information on ritualistic abuse to their attention. Furthermore, Church Security has ex-FBI agents and others trained in law enforcement who would undoubtedly bring reports of this type of activity to the attention of Mormon officials.
The first page of Bishop Pace's memo makes it clear that the church has been investigating the problem of ritualistic abuse since at least 1989: "You have already received the LDS Social Services report on satanism dated May 24, 1989, a report from Brent Ward, and a memorandum from myself dated October 20, 1989 in response to Brother Ward's report. Therefore, I will limit this writing to information not contained in those papers." There are, therefore, at least three important documents which the church possesses which probably throw important light on this subject. As we understand it, the memo Pace wrote "in response to Brother Ward's report" is a 40-page document. According to Dawn House, at first Brent Ward would neither confirm nor deny that he had written a report for the church: "The memo [the 12-page report published in the Messenger] refers to an earlier report by Brent Ward, former U.S. attorney for Utah and a Mormon. Mr. Ward said he would neither confirm nor deny the report's existence." (Salt Lake Tribune, Oct. 25, 1991) The following day, however, Jon Ure wrote the following:
"A former U.S. Attorney for Utah confirmed Friday he conducted research for a report to the Mormon Church on satanic child abuse....
"Brent Ward... said he reported on ritualistic abuse at the request of a Mormon general authority, shortly after Mr. Ward resigned as U.S. Attorney in January 1989." (Salt Lake Tribune, October 26, 1991)
AN INVESTIGATION
We are happy to report that immediately after our publication of the Pace memo a great deal of information concerning satanic ritual abuse in the Mormon Church came to light. Victims, who claimed they had been forced to participate in the evil rituals, gave their stories on all three of Salt Lake City's major television stations. In addition, therapists who were treating victims of the abuse came forth to support the charges. Moreover, it was disclosed that there was a committee that had already been delving into the accusations. On Oct. 25, 1991, the Deseret News reported: "Bishop Pace is one of 27 community leaders sitting on a ritual-abuse subcommittee of the Governor's Commission for Women and Families. The committee, whose members also include therapists, law enforcement personnel, attorneys, religious leaders, former U.S. Attorney Brent Ward, an aide to Sen. Orrin Hatch, an assistant attorney general and first lady Colleen Bangerter, has been meeting since February 1990."
The Salt Lake Tribune for Nov. 13, 1991, said that "Noemi Mattis, who co-chairs the governor's task force... holds a doctorate in psychology and is in private practice as a therapist." The same article quoted Mattis as saying that ritualistic abuse is prevalent: " 'I know that it is widespread... All I can tell you is that my phone has been filled with people who are calling to say they are survivors or therapists who have patients who are.' "
At the time Bishop Pace wrote his report, he claimed he had "met with 60 victims." On page 1 of his report, however, he made it clear that he believed there could "be twice or three times" as many victims-possibly as many as 180. On page 5, he made this sobering statement: "Obviously, I have only seen those coming forth to get help." It appears, then, that Pace envisions a large number of people participating in these satanic activities. In a television interview on the program Take Two (Channel 2), Noemi Mattis revealed that she had made the startling discovery that there were actually "360" victims in this area who were being treated for ritualistic abuse! In another interview, which appeared later on the same station, Dr. Corydon Hammond, a psychologist who also served on the governor's committee on ritualistic abuse, gave a figure of "366."
In his memo, Bishop Pace referred to "allegations" that "people in high places today in both the Church and the government" are "leading this dual life." (page 10) In his television interview, Dr. Hammond stated that evidence indicated that Satanists had actually encouraged their people to become doctors. These doctors could then provide drugs for use in ritualistic practices and help in brainwashing the children. Noemi Mattis also alleged that Satanists in Utah were being trained as doctors to help carry out illegal activities. (A doctor, for instance, could help cover up the fact that people have been murdered.) Moreover, Mattis indicated that there was evidence that Satanists were being trained as morticians. She also claimed that survivors of the satanic rituals had told of bodies being ground up or burned. These are certainly very serious accusations that are coming from two members of the governor's committee!
Dr. Harnmond further disclosed that victims who didn't know one another were giving the same names of physicians, law enforcement people and other prominent individuals who participated in the ritualistic abuse.
Noemi Mattis claimed that the governor's 27-member ritual abuse committee was originally very skeptical of the claims of satanic abuse. As the evidence piled up, however, it seemed obvious that there was reason to call for an investigation. Consequently, on Nov. 22, 1991, the Salt Lake Tribune reported: "Gov. Norm Bangerter has promised to recommend more investigators for the child-abuse unit of the Utah attorney general's office to look into allegations of ritualistic child sexual abuse.... The task force sponsored by the Governor's Commission on Women and Children recommended the hiring of investigators to look into allegations of ritualistic abuse."
Two days later the Salt Lake Tribune supported Governor Bangerter's decision to appoint investigators to look into the charges of ritualistic abuse. The Tribune called his plan an "open-minded, compassionate approach" and stated that it "deserves public and legislative support." On Jan. 25, 1992, the following appeared in the same newspaper: "Gov. Norm Bangerter's proposal to hire four new investigators in the attorney general's investigation of ritualistic child abuse allegations has received a legislative budget analyst's approval." The same article noted that it would cost "$250,000" to fund the investigation for the fiscal year beginning July 1.
A REAL CONTROVERSY
During the past few years there has been a growing controversy regarding claims of satanic ritualistic abuse. The Psychiatric Times - Medicine & Behavior, published the following:
"A debate over the authenticity of 'ritual abuse,' the systematic physical and/or emotional torture of an individual by a group, has some psychiatrists pitted against each other. Defenders insist children are being victimized in the name of Satan... and tell vivid stories about horrendous sexual, physical, and emotional abuses. Others maintain that many of the stories are the product of emotionally unstable patients...
"In March, Bennett G. Braun, M.D., began another study to analyze the cases of 50 alleged victims of ritual cults....
"Braun admitted that if ritual abuse proves to be a hoax, perpetrated by patients and exaggerated by the media, he and other psychiatrists who have treated hundreds of 'victims' might wind up looking like fools. But, he said, that possibility doesn't intimidate him....'I'd rather make mistakes than ignore what I'm hearing. Nobody wanted to believe that Hitler was committing atrocities either.' " (The Psychiatric Times - Medicine & Behavior, April 1991, p. 54)
While a large number of Christians believe that satanic ritualistic abuse is a real phenomenon, some Christian writers have expressed skepticism. Bob and Gretchen Passantino, for example, have printed a number of articles in which they criticized the claim that there is a large satanic conspiracy engaged in abusing children. They have been kind enough to send us a good deal of material on the subject which we have carefully considered before preparing this newsletter. At the present time we are not as skeptical of claims regarding satanic ritualistic abuse as the Passantinos; however, we feel that they have done a tremendous job of pointing out that some Christian writers have made false and misleading statements in their treatment of Satanism. We feel that it is important to take these things into consideration when evaluating such a serious matter.
The Christian Research Institute has also provided us with a great deal of material (both pro and con) regarding satanic ritualistic abuse. A number of other people and organizations have sent us material dealing with both sides of the question. We have tried to look objectively at the arguments of those representing both viewpoints and draw our own conclusions.
One of the most vocal critics of satanic ritualistic abuse in Utah is David Raskin. In an article published in the Salt Lake Tribune, we find the following:
"Gov. Norm Bangerter's Task Force on Child Abuse is being used to foment mass hysteria in the form of a nonexistent evil called satanic ritualistic child abuse, a noted psychologist alleges.
"David Raskin, a University of Utah professor in psychology, said Tuesday state government has become the pawn of those who believe ritualistic child abuse exists despite a lack of supporting evidence.
" 'These people have built an industry on this: government, money, jobs, insurance. If somebody said, you know you have been led down the primrose path and all of this is fantasy, the budgets disappear, the jobs disappear and people are left very embarrassed,' Mr. Raskin said." (Salt Lake Tribune, Nov. 13, 1991)
While we agree that hard forensic evidence concerning satanic ritualistic abuse is scanty, we find it very difficult to totally dismiss the testimony of so many victims. When Dr. Raskin accuses people of being led down "the primrose path," it brings to mind the fact that Raskin himself has spent at least some time on that path. In 1985 he was convinced that Mark Hofmann did not plant the bombs that killed two people. The Salt Lake Tribune, Nov. 20, 1985, reported: "Mark W. Hofmann... has passed a lie detector test indicating he is telling the truth when he says he did not plant the bombs, his defense attorney said Tuesday.... Dr. David Raskin—a world-renowned polygraph expert and psychologist... was one of two experts who verified the Hofmann examination." Although Raskin admitted he had made a mistake after Hofmann confessed to the murders, the Jan. 27, 1987, issue of the Salt Lake Tribune reported: "Police and prosecutors... still are angry at the doubt sewn in the community by the release of those test results by defense attorneys.... Those disclosures 'had a huge impact on the public perception of this investigation,' said Salt Lake City Police Detective Ken Farnsworth. And those disclosures not only by the defense lawyer but statements made by the examiners — didn't do the reputation of the polygraph any good, said several polygraph experts. 'I think they did us all a great disservice,' said one licensed polygraph expert who asked that his name not be used."
We feel that Dr. Raskin has been rather harsh in his accusations against therapists and members of the Governor's Committee. The Salt Lake Tribune also felt that Raskin went too far in his criticism. In an editorial published Nov. 18, 1991, we find the following:
"The ugliness of ritualistic abuse is entering another realm. Now Utah scholars, therapists and government officials are hurling mean accusations at one another, confusing an already skeptical public and further imperiling the apparent victims.
"David Raskin... who himself is paid to refute childabuse claims in court, contends the state has become a pawn of therapists who would foment hysteria about satanic abuse for financial gain....
"While skepticism is justified in any scientific endeavor, quick, cynical dismissal of accounts of ritualistic abuse could prove unconscionably dangerous and cruel to those who might have experienced it. Unless taken seriously, adult victims cannot be effectively treated and child victims cannot be rescued.
"In fact, several credible scholars and clinicians, including some at the University of Utah, as well as officials from Utah law enforcement and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints consider ritual abuse, satanic and otherwise, a real threat. Some have contributed to the state task force's work.
"It would be stretching it to say these people are motivated by profit. Time spent on the task force is volunteered."
HUMAN SACRIFICE?
If satanic ritualistic abuse is actually being practiced in Utah, as the evidence seems to suggest, it is possible that some of the ideas came from the teachings of Aleister Crowley. Crowley, who has been called "the Devil's chief emissary on earth," had a very significant effect on the world of the occult. In his book, Biographical Dictionary of American Cult and Sect Leaders, 1986, pages 59-61, Dr. J. Gordon Melton gave this information: "Aleister Crowley... rebelled against his strict upbringing and earned the label 'The Beast 666' (from Revelation 13-18) given by his mother... Crowley... was accepted into the highest levels of the O.T.O.... the O.T.O. taught a form of sex magic... The O.T.O. had previously created ten degrees, including ones for the practice of autoerotic (VIIIº) and heterosexual (IXº) sex magic. Crowley's new rituals added an experimental degree for homosexual... magic (XIº)..."
Although Aleister Crowley did not call himself a Satanist, he did write the following: "Before I touched my teens, I was already aware that I was THE BEAST whose number is 666." (Magick, by Aleister Crowley, 1976, page 130) Francis King informs us that "Crowley began his first serious experiments in sexual magic on the very last day of 1913. These operations were not the normal heterosexual magic of the ninth degree of the O.T.O., they were homosexual magic of Crowley's own devising... " (Sexuality, Magic and Perversion, page 108) On page 113 of the same book, King speaks of the use of a 'goat' in the sexual magic Crowley was engaged in. The goat was eventually used as a 'blood-sacrifice.' Crowley even recorded some of his bizarre "sex magic" (including homosexual acts) in his diaries. As some of Crowley's teaching became known, many people began to consider him the "most evil" man in the world.
In his book, Magick, Aleister Crowley noted that "the highest spiritual working" required the sacrifice of a male child:
"It is necessary for us to consider carefully the problems connected with the bloody sacrifice... the bloody sacrifice has from time immemorial been the most considered part of Magick....
"It would be unwise to condemn as irrational the practice of those savages who tear the heart and liver from an adversary, and devour them while yet warm. In any case it was the theory of the ancient Magicians that any living being is a storehouse of energy... At the death of the animal this energy is liberated suddenly.
"The animal should therefore be killed within the Circle, or the Triangle, as the case may be, so that its energy cannot escape.... For the highest spiritual working one must accordingly choose that victim which contains the greatest and purest force. A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim...
"Those magicians who object to the use of blood have endeavored to replace it with incense....
"But the bloody sacrifice, though more dangerous, is more efficacious; and for nearly all purposes human sacrifice is the best... The method of killing is practically uniform. The animal should be stabbed to the heart, or its throat severed, in either case by the knife." (Magick, pp. 217, 219, 220, 222)
In 1966, Anton Szandor LaVey founded the Church of Satan in San Francisco. Like Aleister Crowley, LaVey took a very strong stand against Christianity. Three years after he founded his church, LaVey published The Satanic Bible. In this book LaVey wrote the following: "6 I dip my forefinger in the watery blood of your impotent mad redeemer, and write over his thorn-torn brow: The TRUE prince of evil—the king of the slaves!... I gaze into the glassy eye of your fearsome Jehovah, and pluck him by the beard; I uplift a broad-axe, and split open his wormeaten skull!" (The Satanic Bible, 1969, page 30)
Although LaVey says that "Satanism condones any type of sexual activity which properly satisfies your individual desires—be it heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual, if you choose " he claims that "Satanism would not intentionally hurt others by violating their sexual rights. Satanism does not advocate rape, child molesting, sexual defilement of animals, or any other form of sexual activity which entails the participation of those who are unwilling..." (The Satanic Bible, pp. 67, 70) In his book The Satanic Rituals, 1972, p. 206, LaVey claimed that "Satanists... have no wish to offend further the sensibilities of the self-righteous by luring apple-cheeked boys and girls into 'unholy rites and unspeakable orgies.'... we recognize the importance of working within the legal framework of society."
Anton LaVey tries to down play the idea of human sacrifice by Satanists. He, in fact, claims that they would not want to sacrifice a baby:
"The use of a human sacrifice in a Satanic ritual does not imply that the sacrifice is slaughtered 'to appease the gods.' Symbolically, the victim is destroyed through the working of a hex or curse, which in turn leads to the physical, mental or emotional destruction of the 'sacrifice' in ways and means not attributable to the magician....
"The only time a Satanist would perform a human sacrifice would be if it were to serve a two-fold purpose; that being to release the magician's wrath in the throwing of a curse, and more important, to dispose of a totally obnoxious and deserving individual.
"Under NO circumstances would a Satanist sacrifice any animal or baby!...
"When a person, by his reprehensible behavior, practically cries out to be destroyed, it is truly your moral obligation to indulge them their wish." (The Satanic Bible, pp. 88-90)
Al Carlisle, a Utah State Prison psychologist, does not agree with the statement that Satanists would not "sacrifice any animal or baby." According to the Salt Lake Tribune, August 3, 1986, Dr. Carlisle "said individuals who are at the cult level have no qualms about killing others. 'I know one guy who witnessed a dozen sacrifices back east,' he said. 'They believe the prime energy in a person is in the blood. They sacrifice the person and believe that those who consume the blood will receive the power.' "
Dr. Susan J. Kelley observed that although "devil worship has existed as long as Christianity, modern satanism began as an occult revival in the last century.... because Christianity believes that children are special to God, satanism, which negates Christianity, considers the desecration of children to be a way of gaining victory over God..." (Cultic Studies Journal, vol. 5, no. 2, 1988, page 229)
After we published Bishop Pace's memo, some Mormons who were victims of satanic ritualistic abuse contacted us about the matter. The following is taken from a letter by a woman who was involved in the cult:
"On the subject of 'ritual abuse' — Issue #80... I was such a person who was disfellowshipped, and then excommunicated from the Mormon Church[.] Page 4 of Bishop Glenn L. Pace's Memorandum describes my situation. To say anything more would be moot. Take care not to 'witch-hunt[.]' These groups (Satanic) take great delight in getting people to 'chase their own tails' — It's called 'creating chaos' — and this 'chaos' is one of the things that makes them thrive. Also note: The Mormons aren't the only ones to face this — There are Christian denominations all over the U.S. that have had to deal with this... If I can be of assistance let me know." (Letter dated Nov. 20, 1991)
The observation that the "Mormons aren't the only ones to face this" is certainly true. Satanic ritualistic abuse, in fact, is reported in many parts of the country and in a number of churches. Some feel, however, that Utah has a large number of victims reporting ritualistic abuse when that number is compared to the population of the state. An investigation in Utah, where there appears to be a concentration of cases, could undoubtedly throw important light on cases throughout the United States.
Bishop Pace has indicated in his report that Mormon victims claim that they were "baptized by blood into the satanic order which is meant to cancel out their baptism into the Church." (page 3) Since Mormons believe their children do not reach accountability until they are eight years of age, they do not baptize them until they arrive at that age. Significantly, a number of the survivors report ritualistic abuse around the time they were baptized at the age of eight. For example, Dawn House wrote the following concerning one of the victims:
" 'Perhaps I'll always remember the baptism because it clicked into my self-esteem,' she said. 'One minute I was white and pure, then made to be black. I thought that I can look like I'm pure but I'm really not.'
"She remembers a man marking her face and breasts black in a mock religious ceremony, shortly after her baptism in the Church... when she was 8 years old.
" 'My mother told me this was another part of my baptism and to... be a good girl. The man took me into a big room and told me to remove my clothes. He put a black cloth over my head and marks on my body.
" 'We went to another room where adults were dressed in black. There was a star drawn on the floor... I was placed in the middle of the star... I looked around to see candles and then, a baby calf in a cage. I heard the animal cry, almost like a baby. Part of the ritual was killing the calf.
" 'I was given a vial of red liquid, perhaps blood, to drink. There may have been a drug in it because I passed out. When I woke up, I was bleeding from the vagina. I remember seeing my mother staring at me, and I wondered why she was doing this to me, but I was too frightened to do or say anything. I was trying so hard to be a good girl.' (Salt Lake Tribune, Nov. 3, 1991)
We were recently told by the mother of one of the survivors that her daughter was gang raped in the basement of a Mormon ward house when she was eight years old. Another victim we talked to claimed that when she was eight years old she was also taken to the basement of a Mormon ward house and raped by a number of men and was forced to drink blood. This woman claims that in her case those involved were not wearing black robes but rather white Mormon temple apparel.
Critics of satanic ritualistic abuse sometimes point out that accounts given by victims throughout the United States and other countries are remarkably similar. From this they conclude that the victims borrowed their stories from accounts given by others. While this has undoubtedly occurred in some cases, it is hard to believe that all of these people are borrowing from others.
The stories given by Mormons regarding Satanic abuse are similar in many respects to those related by victims in other parts of the United States. However, it appears that the rituals have been modified to fit Mormon beliefs. That a number of victims would claim they were "baptized by blood" or abused when they were eight years old seems important. It is highly unlikely that the three women mentioned above knew each other's stories. They lived in different parts of the United States and were separated by hundreds of miles. It would be interesting to know how many other cases of this phenomenon Glenn Pace found in his research.
Even more significant is the fact that the Satanists appear to have incorporated portions of the Mormon temple ceremony into their rituals. Bishop Pace wrote the following, in his memo:
"I'm sorry to say that many of the victims have had their first flashbacks while attending the temple for the first time. The occult along the Wasatch Front uses the doctrine of the Church to their advantage. For example, the verbiage and gestures are used in a ritualistic ceremony in a very debased and often bloody manner. When the victim goes to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories are triggered. We have recently been disturbed with members of the Church who have talked about the temple ceremony. Compared to what is happening in the occult along the Wasatch Front, these are very minor infractions. The perpetrators are also living a dual life. Many are temple recommend holders." (Memo by Glenn Pace, page 4)
Satanic ritualistic abuse is so extremely brutal that many of the victims develop amnesia. Their minds simply cannot face what has happened. Later in life, however, something can trigger the horrible memory which has been blocked out. Although they do not involve satanic ritualistic abuse, examples of this were reported in Time Magazine, Oct. 28, 1991, page 86: "Last November in Redwood City, Calif., George Franklin was convicted of killing an eight-year-old girl in 1969; the case was based largely on the testimony of his daughter Eileen Franklin-Lipsker, who had repressed the memory of her playmates murder for 20 years. This month in Pittsburgh, Steven Slutzker is scheduled to go on trial for the 1975 fatal shooting of John Mudd Sr. Slutzker was charged after the victim's son, who was 5 when his father died, claimed he had a flashback memory of the murder.... at least a dozen states since 1988 have amended their statute of limitations for bringing charges to allow for delayed discovery of childhood sexual abuse."
On page 87 of the same article we find that Eileen Franklin-Lipsker remembered the murder of her playmate after "A glance from her own six-year-old daughter, who bears a striking resemblance to the murdered child, brought back scenes of the chilling event. Experts say emotional, evocative moments can often exhume long-buried memories."
Bishop Pace's statement that "many of the victims have had their first flashbacks while attending the temple for the first time" certainly raises some serious questions. Pace freely admits that when "the victim goes to the temple and hears the exact words, horrible memories are triggered." It is clear, then, that Bishop Pace is convinced that Satanists are using portions of the Mormon temple ceremony in their abusive rituals. According to Dawn House, the "nightmares" of the victim she interviewed "were triggered when she attended a Mormon temple ceremony for the first time. She said the temple handshakes, oaths and clothes brought back memories.
" 'Every time I went, I came back crying,' she said. 'My bishop said it was Satan trying to tempt me, telling me I shouldn't go.' " (Salt Lake Tribune, Nov. 3, 1991)
Before Mormons go through the temple endowment ritual they must pass through the washing and anointing ceremonies. A victim of ritualistic abuse told us that she became terrified when she went through the washing and anointing ceremonies. After that her mind blanked out and she went through the rest of the ritual in a zombie-like state.
According to a psychiatrist, a woman he treated reached the part of the Mormon temple ceremony in which a man playing the role of Lucifer threatens those who are going through the ritual that "If they do not walk up to every covenant they make at these altars in this temple this day, they will be in my power." (Evolution of the Mormon Temple Ceremony: 1842-1990, page 127) This undoubtedly triggered a flashback concerning what happened to the woman when she was ritually abused. In satanic ceremonies a man sometimes poses as the devil and, according to one witness, Satanists chant, "Satan has all power." The idea of someone playing the role of the devil and threatening those going through the temple ceremony that he could have them in his "power" could be terrifying for those who have previously passed through satanic ceremonies. Although the devil is commanded "to depart" in the Mormon temple ritual, the woman mentioned above had already had the flashback and was absolutely devastated by the threat.
We talked to the son of another woman who had been satanically abused. This woman also had her first "flashback" when passing through the Mormon temple ritual and was deeply disturbed by the matter. Unfortunately, her son did not know exactly which part of the ritual caused the trauma.
Since Glenn Pace has stated that "many of the victims" received their first flashbacks in the temple, his research would undoubtedly throw important light on exactly which portions of the ceremony brought back memories of satanic rituals. It should be remembered that Bishop Pace is a General Authority in the Mormon Church. Because of his important position in the church, it seems highly unlikely that he would want to admit that Satanists had been able to infiltrate the church and use "the exact words" of the temple ritual in their degrading ceremonies. One can only conclude that the evidence that this has taken place must be overpowering. Some of this information may be found in Glenn Pace's 40-page report on the subject.
While Pace's 12-page report is certainly shocking, the statements made by the victims themselves, which came forth after we published the memo, contain details that are even more appalling. If we accept these accounts as authentic, we are forced to conclude that one of the most diabolical conspiracies one could ever imagine has gained a real foothold right in the shadow of the Mormon temple.
With regard to human sacrifice, Glenn Pace stated in his memo that of the "sixty" people he interviewed, "forty-five victims allege witnessing and/or participating in human sacrifice." (p. 1) This would mean that 75% of these Mormons declared that they had witnessed murder! This figure seems to be close to that derived from a study conducted by Walter C. Young, Roberta G. Sachs, Bennett G. Braun and Ruth T. Watkins. They studied thirty-seven different victims of ritual abuse in "four separate hospitals across the country" and found that 83% of the patients claimed they witnessed human sacrifice. ("Patients Reporting Ritual Abuse in Childhood: A Clinical Syndrome," published in Child Abuse & Neglect, vol. 15, page 183)
DEATH OF BABY X
In the last issue of our newsletter we pointed out that it would be extremely difficult to cover up all of the human sacrifices which are alleged to have occurred in satanic rituals. We went on to suggest that it would be possible to actually stage a fake human sacrifice and explained how this could be accomplished. Since making this suggestion, however, we have heard some accounts of human sacrifices which contain such graphic details that it is more difficult to explain them away in this manner. In any case, whether the sacrifices are real or fake, most of the victims believe they have witnessed ritualistic murders and this has a profound effect on their lives.
With regard to David Raskin's charge that there is a paucity of hard evidence on ritualistic abuse, it is interesting to note that some important information has been uncovered in Idaho. This information could relate to what has been going on in Utah. From what we can learn, charges of satanic activity have surfaced in Provo, which is the home of the Mormon Church's Brigham Young University, Salt Lake City, Bountiful, Ogden and Logan. We have been told that Bear Lake is also a place where Satanists are active. This lake begins in northern Utah and stretches up into southern Idaho. To the west of Bear Lake is the town of Rupert, Idaho. Rupert appears to be only about forty miles from the Utah border.
On the first page of his memo, Bishop Glenn Pace wrote that he had questioned three victims from the state of Idaho, and on Nov. 8, 1991, KTVX (Channel 4) reported that Pace had, in fact, interviewed people from the city of Rupert with regard to satanic abuse. This information becomes rather important when we consider the case of "Baby X." On October 23, 1990, the Seattle Post-Intelligence carried an article concerning the "Killing of Baby X." In this article we find the following:
"RUPERT, Idaho—... No deed was fouler than that perpetrated on Baby X.
"When her tiny, charred corpse was found in a garbage dump almost a year ago, Baby X was hardly recognizable as human. An autopsy produced an even more horrifying discovery.
"Before she was burned, Baby X... had been disemboweled and mutilated.
"There long had been rumors of satanic cults in southern Idaho, of ritual killing and sacrifice.
"But never in the memory of anyone in local law enforcement had the body of a possible victim ever been found.... Then, in July, there was a sudden and unexpected development 1,000 miles away, in California. A 10-year-old boy told authorities there he had witnessed the ritual sacrifice of an infant in his home state, in Idaho....
"His bizarre story and crude drawings bore striking similarities to a possible Baby X death scene, investigators said....
"Kerry Patterson, a forensic pathologist... was called to assist the county coroner with the autopsy....
"The remains were those of a girl, no more than 3 weeks old.... The abdominal organs had been cut out. Only the lungs and a portion of the upper heart chamber were left. Both feet were cut off, as well as the right arm from the shoulder.
"The infant was dismembered before she was burned with gasoline, Patterson concluded."
While it has been suggested the baby could have died of pneumonia and that a predator might have been responsible for the missing body parts, no one seems to contest that the baby's body was burned.
On January 4, 1991, the South Idaho Press reported that Sgt. Tim Hatcher of the Minidoka Sheriff's Department traveled to California to interview the boy who claimed he saw a child sacrificed: "Hatcher said... that the boy very closely described a scenario similar to the Baby X case.... The boy also used words like 'witch, sacrifice and devil' and drew a picture of a barrel with fire and a baby, according to Hatcher."
The boy also claimed that he was a victim of ritual abuse. The following was printed in the Salt Lake Tribune, on Sept. 16, 1991: "RUPERT, Idaho — Authorities say drawings and descriptions by a child questioned in an abuse investigation indicate the child may have witnessed and been a victim of satanic rites.... Rupert police obtained the drawings last year. The child drew five pictures for Rupert Police Detective Terry Quinn... The detective was not prepared for what he saw.
Ghostly people, some frowning, others blank-faced, fill the pictures. One drawing shows people gathered around a table on which someone lies with male genitals exposed.... Another drawing shows two people on a table, hearts exposed.... After drawing the pictures, the child explained what they showed, Quinn said. 'They put me on a table with a Bible. The devil is there. They pray to the devil. The devil makes these people hurt me. They hurt me so bad. They hurt me in the private parts. They have hurt me so many times.' "
On Nov. 8, 1991, KUTV reported that this boy's house was located only a few miles from where Baby X was found! It is also interesting to note that after we published Pace's memo, a victim of ritualistic abuse gave her story on KTVX (Channel 4). She claimed that her grandfather (a bishop in the Mormon Church) and her grandmother (who was president of the local ward Relief Society) were leaders in a satanic cult. She maintained that she saw her baby brother murdered and that she was forced to have a ritualistic abortion. As in the case of Baby X, her baby was burned!
WHY IN UTAH?
In the last issue of the Salt Lake City Messenger we stated that we concurred with Bishop Pace's statement that the Mormon Church was a victim of a group of pernicious deceivers. While we have no reason to believe that the church itself is involved in promoting this evil conspiracy, the extent of satanic ritualistic abuse in Utah seems to raise some important questions about Mormonism.
One, since the Mormon leaders claim to have the same powers as the ancient Apostles in the Bible, why were they unable to detect that "bishops, a patriarch, a stake president, temple workers, and members of the Tabernacle Choir" (Pace Memo, page 5) were involved in these evil practices? Ezra Taft Benson, the thirteenth prophet of the Mormon Church, has boasted that church leaders have special discernment which is far superior to "earthly knowledge." Why, then, did it take psychiatrists and psychologists to ferret out the facts concerning ritualistic abuse?
Two, why is it that the Mormon Church, which claims to be the only true church on the face of the earth, is so vulnerable to infiltration by occultists?
In the last issue of the Messenger, we pointed out that there are some things in LDS Church history and doctrine that make the church susceptible to deceivers who would use it for their own wicked purposes. One of the church's most important problems has been with regard to polygamy. Unfortunately, Joseph Smith, the first Mormon prophet, declared that God gave him a revelation that he was to enter into plural marriage. This revelation is still published in the Doctrine and Covenants, one of the four standard works of the church. We find the following in that revelation: "Verily, thus saith the Lord unto you my servant Joseph... if any man espouse a virgin, and desire to espouse another, and the first give her consent, and if he espouse the second, and they are virgins, and have vowed to no other man, then is he justified; he cannot commit adultery... And if he have ten virgins given unto him by this law, he cannot commit adultery... therefore is he justified." (Doctrine and Covenants, Section 132, verses 1, 61-62) Joseph Smith was obedient to the commandment and proceeded to marry dozens of plural wives before he was murdered in 1844.
Today, the Mormon Church does not allow its members to practice polygamy, and those who do so are excommunicated. But since church leaders never really repudiated the doctrine itself, teach that it will be lived in heaven, and still retain the revelation on polygamy in the Doctrine and Covenants, many Mormons have secretly entered into the practice. These people are known as Mormon Fundamentalists. Unfortunately, in some cases the practice of polygamy seems to open up the door for other sexual practices which are extremely harmful to children and young women. We have, in fact, learned that a number of women who are involved in the polygamous movement are also being treated for satanic ritualistic abuse.
From the accounts we have studied, it appears that incest plays an important role in cases of satanic ritualistic abuse. While the present leaders of the Mormon Church condemn incestuous relationships, during the time of Joseph Smith and Brigham Young some strange things were taught concerning this matter. Joseph Smith, for instance, "married five pairs of sisters." and even a "mother" and her own "daughter." (No Man Knows My History, p. 336) In her book, Intimate Disciple, p. 317, Mormon writer Clair Noall verified that Smith did marry a mother and her daughter: "Sylvia Lyon, Patty's daughter and the wife of Windsor J. Lyon, was already sealed to Joseph. This afternoon she was to put her mother's hand in the Prophet's." Fanny Stenhouse, who at one time had been a firm believer in Mormonism and had even allowed her husband to take another wife, wrote the following: "Marriages have been contracted between the nearest of relatives; and old men tottering on the brink of the grave have been united to little girls scarcely in their teens; while unnatural alliances of every description, which in any other community would be regarded with disgust and abhorrence, are here entered into in the name of God... It is quite a common thing in Utah for a man to marry two or even three sisters.... I know also another man who married a widow with several children; and when one of the girls had grown into her teens he insisted on marrying her also... and to this very day the daughter bears children to her step-father, living as wife in the same house with her mother!" (Tell It All, 1874, p. 468-69)
The anti-Mormon writer Joseph H. Jackson charged that Joseph Smith himself "feigned a revelation to have Mrs. Milligan, his own sister, married to him spiritually." That Smith believed that a man could be married for eternity to his own sister has been confirmed by an entry added to Joseph Smith's private diary after his death. It appears under the date of Oct. 26, 1843, and reads as follows:
"The following named deceased persons were sealed to me (John M. Bernhisel) on Oct. 26th, 1843, by Pres. Joseph Smith—
Maria Bernhisel, Sister—
Brother Samuel's wife, Catherine Kremer
Mary Shatto (Aunt)...
'Recorded by Robt. L. Cambell
July 29, 1868[.]" (Joseph Smith's Diary, Oct. 26, 1843, Church Historical Department)
The reader will notice that Bernhisel claimed that he was sealed to his sister by Joseph Smith. Now, if the doctrine of Celestial Marriage were true, in the resurrection John Bernhisel would find himself married to his own sister, Maria Bernhisel!
There is evidence that John Taylor, who became the 3rd prophet of the Mormon Church, promised his own sister that she could be sealed to him. Under the date of Feb. 25, 1889, L. John Nuttal, a very prominent Mormon recorded the following:
"...Agnes Schwartz & her daughter Mary called this morning to see Prest. Woodruff... She said that her brother John the late President John Taylor had told her some 30 years ago that if She could not be reconciled to continue with any of her husbands she might be sealed to his brother William or himself. and she now wanted to be sealed to him." (Journal of L. John Nuttal, vol. 2, p. 362-63 of typed copy at Brigham Young University Library)
Benjamin G. Ferris, who was Secretary of the Territory of Utah, reported the following concerning Brigham Young's views on incest:
"Their system of plurality has obliterated nearly all sense of decency... There are a number of cases in which a man has taken a widow and her daughter for wives at the same time. One has a widow and her two daughters. There are also instances of the niece being sealed to the uncle, and they excite no more attention than any ordinary case.... Brigham Young stated in the pulpit, in 1852, that the time might come when, for the sake of keeping the lineage of the priesthood unbroken, marriages would be confined to the same families; as, for instance, the son of one mother would marry the daughter of another by the same father... Why should not the blood of the priesthood, like that of the Incas, be kept pure?" (Utah And The Mormons, 1854, p. 252-53)
As early as 1852 Brigham Young, the second prophet of the Mormon Church, did comment on brothers and sisters marrying: "I feel like swearing by the Gods, and all the Holy Angels. I will just keep myself to myself and not mingle with them and I mean to say to my sons and daughters, marry one another and keep together, but that would be considered as treasonable and wicked by the world. I expect they would hang me before they passed sentence on me." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Feb. 22, 1852, as published in The Teachings of President Brigham Young, Compiled and Edited by Fred C. Collier, vol. 3, p. 60)
Joseph Smith, of course, contended that "God himself, who sits enthroned in yonder heavens, is a man like unto one of yourselves..." (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 613-14) He also taught that God was married and had billions of spirit children in the pre-existence. In other words, according to Smith's theology, we were all born to God and his wife and lived as his sons and daughters before coming to earth. Brigham Young reasoned that since all people who come to the earth were originally brothers and sisters, that there is really no problem with brothers and sisters marrying. On Oct. 8, 1854, Brigham Young made these controversial comments:
"Then I reckon that the children of Adam and Eve married each other; this is speaking to the point. I believe in sisters marrying brothers, and brothers having their sisters for wives. Why? Because we cannot do otherwise. There are none others for me to marry but my sisters.
" 'But yo[u would] not pretend to say you would marry your father and mothers daughter.'
"If I did not I would marry another of my sisters that lives over in another garden... Our spirits are all brothers and sisters, and so are our bodies; and the opposite idea to this has resulted from the ignorant, and foolish traditions of the nations of the Earth....
"This is something pertaining to our marriage relation. The whole world will think what an awful thing it is. What an awful thing it would be if the Mormons should just say we believe in marrying brothers and sisters. Well we shall be under the necessity of doing it, because we cannot find anybody else to marry." (The Teachings of President Brigham Young, vol. 3, p. 362, 368)
The strange teachings of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young and other early Mormon leaders concerning polygamy and incest have caused confusion in the minds of many Mormons and may have helped open the way for satanic ritualistic abuse in the church.
MORMONS & SACRIFICE
Notwithstanding the fact that Satanist Anton LaVey down plays the idea of animal or human sacrifice, many investigators believe that at least some Satanists are involved in this type of ritualistic activity. We have already quoted Aleister Crowley as saying that "A male child of perfect innocence and high intelligence is the most satisfactory and suitable victim."
In over thirty years of studying Mormonism we have never found any doctrine which encourages the killing of an innocent child. There are, however, some unusual ideas concerning sacrifice which we should take a look at.
For example, while Joseph Smith condemned the practice of animal sacrifices after the death of Christ in his Book of Mormon (3 Nephi 9:19), he later wrote that, "These sacrifices, as well as every ordinance belonging to the Priesthood, will, when the Temple of the Lord shall be built, and the sons of Levi be purified, be fully restored and attended to in all their powers, ramifications, and blessings." (History of the Church, vol. 4, p. 211)
According to Wandle Mace, a devout Mormon, Joseph Smith instructed his followers to offer an animal sacrifice in the Kirtland Temple: "Joseph told them to go to Kirtland, and cleanse and purify a certain room in the Temple, that they must kill a lamb and offer a sacrifice unto the Lord which should prepare them to ordain Willard Richards a member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles." ("Journal of Wandle Mace," page 32, microfilmed copy at Brigham Young University Library) Wilford Woodruff, who later became the fourth prophet of the Mormon Church, claimed that President Brigham Young disclosed that when the temple was completed in Utah, it would have a sacrificial altar: "Under the pulpit in the west End will be a place to Offer Sacrafizes. There will be an Altar prepared for that purposes [sic] so that when any sacrifices are to be offered they should be offered there." (Wilford Woodruff's Journal: 1833-1898, December 18, 1857, vol. 5, p. 140)
Although it is clear that the first two prophets of the Mormon Church believed that animal sacrifice would be an important part of the "gospel," we know of no accounts of any animal sacrifice in Mormonism after the 1840s.
From the evidence we have examined, it appears that Joseph Smith's interest in blood sacrifices did not originally come from reading the Old Testament but rather from his participation in the occult. Joseph Smith's involvement in magic practices had always been denied by the Mormon Church until 1971, when Wesley P. Walters discovered an original document which proves that Joseph Smith was a "glass looker" and that he was arrested and examined before a justice of the peace in Bainbridge, N.Y. in 1826. This document is Justice Albert Neeley's bill showing the costs involved in several trials held in 1826. The fifth item from the top mentions the examination of "Joseph Smith The Glass Looker" (see Mormonism—Shadow or Reality? p. 34, for a photograph of the complete document [Web-editor: also see Messenger #95]).
This document confirmed the historicity of the examination record which had been published since 1873. In this document Joseph Smith admitted that he used a Seer Stone which he placed in his hat to try to locate buried treasures. The reader will no doubt be struck by the similarity to the magical practice of crystal gazing which is widely practiced in the occult. In Joseph Smith's time magicians and other individuals influenced by the occult used this method to find buried treasures and lost items. In the printed record we read that Joseph Smith said "That he had a certain stone which he had occasionally looked at to determine where hidden treasures in the bowels of the earth were; that he... had occasionally been in the habit of looking through this stone to find lost property for three years..." (see complete transcript in Mormonism—Shadow or Reality? p. 32)
A few years after Smith's run in with the law, he was using this same method — a stone placed in a hat — to translate the Book of Mormon. David Whitmer, one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, wrote: "I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing." (An Address To All Believers In Christ, 1887, page 12) Many witnesses confirmed this statement and even the Mormon historian B. H. Roberts referred to the use of a Seer Stone in translating the Book of Mormon (see A Comprehensive History of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, vol. 1, p. 129).
Besides the magical stone, the money diggers often offered animal sacrifices to the demons who guarded the treasures. There seems to be a good deal of evidence to show that Joseph Smith and others in his family participated in blood sacrifices in their money digging operation. For example, in an affidavit William Stafford related:
"I, William Stafford, having been called upon to give a true statement of my knowledge, concerning the character and conduct of the family of Smiths... do say... A great part of their time was devoted to digging for money...
"Joseph Smith, Sen., came to me one night, and told me, that Joseph Jr. had been looking in his glass, and had seen not many rods from his house, two or three kegs of gold and silver, some feet under the surface of the earth... I accordingly consented to go... Joseph, Sen. first made a circle, twelve or fourteen feet in diameter. This circle, said he, contains the treasure. He then stuck in the ground a row of witch hazel sticks, around the said circle, for the purpose of keeping off the evil spirits.... the old man... by signs and motions, asked leave of absence, and went to the house to inquire of young Joseph the cause of our disappointment. He soon returned and said, that Joseph had remained all this time in the house, looking in his stone and watching the motions of the evil spirit... it caused the money to sink.... the old man observed... we had made a mistake in the commencem[e]nt of the operation; if it had not been for that, said he, we should have got the money.
"At another time... Old Joseph and one of the boys came to me one day, and said that Joseph Jr. had discovered some very valuable treasures, which could be procured only in one way... a black sheep should be taken on the ground where the treasures were concealed—that after cutting its throat, it should be led around a circle while bleeding. This being done, the wrath of the evil spirit would be appeased: the treasures could then be obtained... I let them have a large fat sheep. They afterwards informed me, that the sheep was killed pursuant to commandment; but as there was some mistake in the process, it did not have the desired effect. This, I believe is the only time they ever made money-digging a profitable business." (Mormonism Unvailed, by E.D. Howe, 1834, pages 237-239)
For other accounts of Joseph Smith being involved in animal sacrifice (dogs and sheep) to appease the demons see our book Mormonism, Magic and Masonry, p. 32-34.
BLOOD ATONEMENT RITUAL
One of the most unusual teachings found in the early Mormon Church is the doctrine of "blood atonement." In a manuscript written in 1839, Reed Peck said that the Mormon prophet Joseph Smith claimed he had a revelation in which Apostle Peter told him that he had killed Judas: "He [Joseph Smith] talked of dissenters and cited us to the case of Judas, saying that Peter told him in a conversation a few days ago that [he] himself hung Judas for betraying Christ..." (The Reed Peck Manuscript, page 13)
Although the doctrine of blood atonement was kept secret at first, when the Mormons were isolated in Utah and had more power, they began to boldly teach that certain people needed to be put to death. For example, on Sept. 21, 1856, President Brigham Young, the 2nd prophet of the church, publicly proclaimed that certain sins could only be atoned for by the shedding of the sinner's own blood:
"There are sins that men commit for which they cannot receive forgiveness... and if they had their eyes open to their true condition, they would be perfectly willing to have their blood spilt upon the ground, that the smoke thereof might ascend to heaven as an offering for their sins; and the smoking incense would atone for their sins, whereas, if such is not the case, they will stick to them and remain upon them in the spirit world.
"I know, when you hear my brethren telling about cutting people off from the earth, that you consider it is strong doctrine, but it is to save them, not to destroy them.... I know there are transgressors, who if they knew themselves, and the only condition upon which they can obtain forgiveness, would beg of their brethren to shed their blood, that the smoke thereof might ascend to God as an offering to appease the wrath that is kindled against them, and that the law might have its course. I will say further; I have had men come to me and offer their lives to atone for their sins.
"It is true that the blood of the Son of God was shed for sins... yet men can commit sins which it can never remit... There are sins that can be atoned for by an offering upon an altar, as in ancient days, and there are sins that the blood of a lamb, or a calf, or of turtle doves, cannot remit, but they must be atoned for by the blood of the man.... You have been taught that doctrine, but you do not understand it." (Sermon by Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, vol. 4, p. 53-54; also published in the Mormon Church's Deseret News, Oct. 1 1856, p. 235)
Since this sermon was published in the official organ of the Mormon Church and was reprinted in the church's own publicat
Palstaa ei ole tarkoitettu kirjan pituisille linkeille.Ne ovat liian pitkiä ja oletan, että osaat tiivistämisen taidonkin. Kaikilla ei ole aikaa viettää päiväkausia koneen ääressä:)
Edelleenkään en usko, siitä huolimatta, etten ole mukana kirkon kuvioissa, että virallinen MAP-kirkko syyllistyisi moisiin. Opetukset eivät ole koskaan suuntautuneet tuollaiseen."Jotain tiedän minäkin, olinhan siellä itsekin". Luotan omiin havaintoihini ja ymmärrykseeni.
ELI: siitä huolimatta, etten usko enää tähän oikeistolaiseen kirkkoon ainoana oikeana, vaan uskon laajempiin kokonaisuuksiin, niin tunnen suoranaista myötätuntoa virallisen MAP-kirkon jäseniä kohtaan. Siellä on ollut paljon hienoja ihmisiä, jotka pyyteettä ja vilpittömästi ovat tukeneet heikompia, nostaneet, kantaneet, tukeneet kaikin tavoin, niinkuin Raamatun Vuorisaarnakin edellyttää. Heitä kohtaan tällainen suoranainen vaino alkaa muistuttaa kunnianloukkausta jäsenyytenä MAP-kirkossa. Jaanahan kumppaneineen yleistää kaiken ja ihmiset samaan könttiin. Toisaalta niinhän kirjoitukset ovat lopun lähestyessä luvanneetkin.
Tosiasoita, joista on olemassa autenttisia todisteita? Uskoistko oikeuden pöytäkirjaa?
Ihmettelen vain sitä miten joku voi olla noin naivi, sokea ja uskontonsa puolelta aivopesty.
Kysyit:"Mitä järkeä?"
Vastaus: Sitä järkeä, että myös mormonien itsensä on aika myöntää tosiasiat tosiasioina.
Jos minä en ole enää tekemisissäkään Map-kirkon kanssa, niin olen aivopesty.Noh, näkemys tuokin=))
En usko, että kenestäkään on mukavaa lukea ylipitkiä linkkejä. Pöytäkirjoja sun muita asiakirjoja voi olla pilvin pimein.Kysehän olikin siitä, että mistä porukasta puhutaan.Tämä tästä. En aio tällä palstalla alvariinsa vierailla:)
"Jos minä en ole enää tekemisissäkään Map-kirkon kanssa, niin olen aivopesty.Noh, näkemys tuokin=)) "
Tarkoitin että sinut on ilmeisesti aivopesty silloin kun olet ollut tekemisissä MAP-kirkon kanssa.
Kannattaisi muuten lukea niitä linkkejä. Tietämättömyys ei ole miään hyve, varsinkin kun totuudenmukaista ja dokumentoitua toetoa olisi tarjolla. Mutta se on vapaaehtoista. Haluatko tietää Todellisen totuuden mormonismista, vai pysyä naiveissa ja sinisilmäisen hyväuskoisissa luuloissasi?
Jos ihminen on aivopesty, niin kuinka hän jättää kirkon..näin retorisena kyssärinä vain.
En aio lukea ylipitkiä linkkejä. Aikaa on vähän ja englantini ei ole niin loistava, että lukisin sitä kuin vettä vaan vaikka kieltä osaankin.Rasittavaa, koska pitää tarkistaa tärkeitä kohtia vieraskielisistä linkeistä ja jos ne ovat pitkät kuin nälkävuodet, niin no thanks vaan!
Eipä niitä varmaan kovin moni muukaan jaksa lukea, vieläpä englanniksi.