Kerta täällä näyttää jonkun verran kirkosta eronneita pyöriä niin kertokaahan eroprosessista.
Muistan lukeneeni jostain että pitää ilmottaa sekä maistraatille että kirkolle. En kyllä usko hetkeäkään että kirkko poistaa nimiä rekisteristään.
Mutta nyt voisi olla korkea aika tehdä lopullinen päätös.
Muistan lukeneeni jostain että pitää ilmottaa sekä maistraatille että kirkolle. En kyllä usko hetkeäkään että kirkko poistaa nimiä rekisteristään.
Mutta nyt voisi olla korkea aika tehdä lopullinen päätös.
Vastaukset 34
Vanhimmat
mutta jos teet ilmotuksen sekä maistraatille että piispalle niin ainakin olet tehnyt oman osasi.
Tietääkseni eronneet korkeintaan siirretään johonkin eri arkistolaatikkoon, sillä jos joskus palaat kirkkoon, niin simsalabim kyllä he löytävät tietosi ja voivat tarkistaa.
Mutta eipä sillä mitään väliä ole vai mitä.
... siis ei "poisteta", koska se liittyy jäsenen historiaan,...
Mutta ilmoitus joko maistraattiin TAI kirkolle riittää, ei tarvitse lain mukaan molemmille ilmoitella... Aikaisemmin piti...
"Tietääkseni eronneet korkeintaan siirretään johonkin eri arkistolaatikkoon,"
Näin on.
"sillä jos joskus palaat kirkkoon, niin simsalabim kyllä he löytävät tietosi ja voivat tarkistaa.
Ei mitään simsalabimiä, vaan ihan toimintaan liittyvää normaalia juttua...
Kai se on periaate. Jotkut eroavat tosiaan haluais että KAIKKI tiedot kerta kaikkiaan DELETOIDAAN, mutta käsittääkseni se ei ole mahdollista vaan olet aina siellä kirjoilla maailman loppuun asti, jos kerran olet hairahtunut kasteelle.
Ja siitä että riittää kun maistraatille kirjottaa haluavansa erota niin toki lain mukaan, mutta saako asianomanen vahvistuskirjeen piispalta silloinkin? Vaiko vain maistraatilta?
Onko tosiaan minunkin nimi vielä jossakin arkistossa? Voi p........vai tämmöstä.
En voi puhua muista seurakunnista, mutta omasta seurakunnasta voin sanoa sen verran, että meillä on ihan ongelmaan asti se, että listoillamme on ihmisiä, jotka eivät toimita sitä kirjallista pyyntöä, että heidät poistetaan listoilta. Laki nimittäin käsittääkseni vaatii sen. Kun tälläinen kirjallinen todistus/pyyntö toimitetaan niin silloin nimi poistetaan kirkon kirjoista,eikä se jää minnekään roikkumaan niinkuin täällä väitetään, ainakaan meidän seurakunnassamme. Samalla seurakunta ilmoittaa asiasta väestötietojärjestelmään.
En näe mitään järkeä pitää sellaisia ihmisiä kirkon listoilla, jotka eivät halua sinne. Menettelytapa on aivan yksinkertainen ja jos ihmiset sanovat vain esim. puhelimessa, että haluan erota, niin se ei yksinkertaisesti riitä. Pitää toimittaa tälläinen todistus seurakunnalle. Tässä on ote lakipykälästä:
"Henkilön, joka tahtoo liittyä uskonnollisen yhdyskunnan jäseneksi, tulee ilmoittaa siitä yhdyskunnalle.
Henkilön, joka tahtoo erota uskonnollisesta yhdyskunnasta, tulee ilmoittaa eroamisesta kirjallisesti yhdyskunnalle tai maistraatille. Henkilö katsotaan eronneeksi siitä päivästä lukien, kun yhdyskunta tai maistraatti on saanut eroamisilmoituksen.
Uskonnollisen yhdyskunnan tulee välittömästi ilmoittaa yhdyskunnan jäseneksi otetut ja yhdyskunnalle eroamisilmoituksen tehneet henkilöt väestötietolaissa (507/1993) tarkoitettuun väestötietojärjestelmään." (laki n:o 453/2003, 4 § Liittymis- ja eroamismenettely)
Noin yksinkertaista se on.
"meillä on ihan ongelmaan asti se, että listoillamme on ihmisiä, jotka eivät toimita sitä kirjallista pyyntöä, että heidät poistetaan listoilta."
No pirskatti, pankaa seurakuntanne kotisivulle lomake, jonka ihmiset voivat täyttää ja lähettää teille, tai vielä parempi, lähettäkää epäaktiivisille lomake kotiin ja käskekää täyttää se, annatte seurakunnanjohtajan nimen ja kotiosoitteen ellei teille kelpaa kappelin osoite. Nousee aktiivisuusprosenttinne että kohisee vaan.
"Laki nimittäin käsittääkseni vaatii sen."
Ei vaadi, lain mukaan riittää, että kirjoittaa maistraatille. Se käy kätevästi esim. Tampereen Vapaa-ajattelijoiden kautta osoitteessa
http://www.eroakirkosta.fi - et tarvitse edes postimerkkiä ja koko Suomen alue hoituu niiltä sivuilta.
"Kun tälläinen kirjallinen todistus/pyyntö toimitetaan niin silloin nimi poistetaan kirkon kirjoista,eikä se jää minnekään roikkumaan niinkuin täällä väitetään, ainakaan meidän seurakunnassamme."
Kyllä se jää roikkumaan kirkon arkistoihin niin kuin zappakin sanoi, vaikka tuskin paikallisesti, vaan Salt Lake Cityyn. En usko sen jäävän edes lähetystoimistoon Suomessa saati seurakunnan papereihin. Ellei täällä ole joku paikallinen oma sääntö.
"Samalla seurakunta ilmoittaa asiasta väestötietojärjestelmään."
Toivottavasti ainakin. Minusta on turvallisempaa ilmoittaa maistraattiin, mutta paras on tietysti kun ilmoittaa sekä sinne että MAP-kirkolle.
Tällä sivulla on hyvät neuvot
http://www.mormonismi.net/artikkelit/eroaminen.shtml
tietää jäsenkatoa ainakin niihin tilastoihin, joiden pitäisi kertoa tästä totuudentorvikirkosta ja sen suosiosta ihan toisenlaista.
Nimi säilyy kirkon kirjoissa, MUTTA kukaan esim. Suomessa ei pääse niihin käsiksi.
Tämä liittyy ihan kirkon toimintaan, eikä tarkoita sitä että olet aina mormoni.
Jos maistraattiin ilmoitat, niin empä tiiä että tuleeko jossakin vaihessa kirkolta kirjettä.. Epäilen että ei tule. kokemuksia kenelläkään?
Mitä se käytännössä tarkoittaa, että "nimi säilyy kirkon kirjoissa mutta kukaan Suomessa ei pääse niihin käsiksi"? Tämähän on todella kummallinen tieto. Eikö nykyisen tietosuojalain mukaan ihmisellä itsellään ole oikeus päättää, missä hänestä säilytetään tietoa ja missä ei? Tästä voi kyllä tietosuojavaltuutettukin olla kiinnostunut. Kuka niihin sitten pääsee käsiksi jos ei kukaan Suomessa? Jos ihminen on ilmoittanut eroavansa kirkosta, niin varmaan jokainen siinä yhteydessä olettaa ettei hänestä enää tietoja kirkossa säilytetä. Mikä on käytännön tarkoitus? Miten se liittyy kirkon toimintaan? Nyt kaivataan selkeitä vastauksia varmaan aika monella taholla!
En halua että henkilötietojani säilytetään missään MAP-kirkon rekistereissä. Minut on siihen kastettu ymmärtämättömänä lapsena ja olen täysi-ikäisenä siitä omasta tahdostani eronnut.
Kirkolla ei ole oikeutta säilytellä tietojani. Tuliko aivan selväksi?
Eikä varsinkaan se ole normaalia, että yleiskäsikirjassa kielletään antamassa jäsenelle kopiota omasta jäsenasiakirjastaan. Sen voi nähdä jos piispa siihen suostuu, mutta kopiota siitä ei saa.
Sitä ei perustella kirjassa mitenkään, enkä usko sille mitään kunnon perustetta löytyvänkään. Mormoneja vain viehättää kovasti tuo "need-to-know" -periaate. Lapsellista ja inhottavaa.
Se kuuluu kirkon toimintaan ja siihen on lain mukaan lupa.
Ei ole mitään outoa siinä että kirkon tiedossa säilyy histiariallisia tapahtumia.
Noita tietoja siis ei säilytetä seurakunnanssa.
"Eikö nykyisen tietosuojalain mukaan ihmisellä itsellään ole oikeus päättää, missä hänestä säilytetään tietoa ja missä ei?"
Kyllä on, mutta mites joku henkilö voidaan todeta jäseneksi, jos hän ei salli tietojaan säilytetävän kirkon jäsenrekisterissä?
"Tästä voi kyllä tietosuojavaltuutettukin olla kiinnostunut."
Ei ole. Tai ilmeisesti on ollut,.... Käyppä katsomassa lähimmän seurakunnan ilmoitustaulua...
"Kuka niihin sitten pääsee käsiksi jos ei kukaan Suomessa?"
Vai ja ainostaan kirkon jäsenrekisrtiosastolla Suolajärven kaupungissa... ja / tai vyöhyketoimsitossa (Saksa /Englanti).
"Jos ihminen on ilmoittanut eroavansa kirkosta, niin varmaan jokainen siinä yhteydessä olettaa ettei hänestä enää tietoja kirkossa säilytetä. Mikä on käytännön tarkoitus?"
Se, että jos ja kun ko. henkilö liittyy uudestaan kirkkoon, niin toimitaan tietylla tavalla.
"Miten se liittyy kirkon toimintaan?"
Juuri mainitsemani tapauksessa, että henkilö haluaa liittyä takaisn kirkkon,--- ja näitä on Suomessakin ollut monia..
"Nyt kaivataan selkeitä vastauksia varmaan aika monella taholla!"
Paranoidiaa, vainoharhaisuutta... ei kai nyt kovinkaan monella?... :-)
"Kirkolla ei ole oikeutta säilytellä tietojani."
Kyllä on.
Tuliko aivan selväksi?
On selvää. Tuliko sinulle selväksi?
Mutta tärkeintä olisi että nuo oikeasti kirkosta eronneet, todella saataisiin pois jäsenrekisteristä.
Sillä sehän hammastenkiristystä aiheuttaa kun seliviää että eipäolekkaan kirkosta eronnut, vaikka niin luuleekin olevan...
Pelkkäs anallinen ilmoitus siis EI riitä. Vaan kirjallinen ilmoitus pitää olla.
Kiitos vastauksesta. Tuli aivan selväksi. Siis kerran mormoni aina mormoni pitää todella paikkansa. Mutta vielä yksi kommentti vastaukseesi:
"Eikö nykyisen tietosuojalain mukaan ihmisellä itsellään ole oikeus päättää, missä hänestä säilytetään tietoa ja missä ei?
Kyllä on, mutta mites joku henkilö voidaan todeta jäseneksi, jos hän ei salli tietojaan säilytetävän kirkon jäsenrekisterissä?"
On oikeus myös päättää siitä missä EI säilytetä, esim. jossakin sellaisessa yhteisössä missä ei enää ole jäsen, vai olenko ymmärtänyt jotakin väärin?
Ei ole paranoidiaa mutta kyllä meitä kirkosta eronneita on sentään enemmän kuin muutama Suomessakin, eikä tämmöinen pikku detalji varmaan kaikkia miellytä. Itse en nyt varmaankaan jaksa vaivautua asian tiimoilta tämän suurempiin toimenpiteisiin, mutta periaatteessa kyllä olen ihmeissäni. Onko siellä ilmoitustaululla jokin tietosuojaohje koskien nimenomaan kirkosta eronneita? Eikös se tiedote silloin ole vähän väärässä paikassa eikä mene perille kohderyhmälle? Onhan se huolehtivaista ajatella että tiedot on valmiina siltä varalta että ihminen päättääkin liittyä uudestaan. Mutta ei se varmaan sitä uudestaan liittymistä estäisikään jos niitä entisiä tietoja ei olisi talletettuna? Tässä nyt on yksi esimerkki sellaisesta keskusjohtoisesta byrokratiasta jota mormonikirkossa on paljon ja jota kumarretaan kuin suurempaakin doktriinia.
mormoneille.
Kuten jo kävi ilmi, sinun (eronneen tai eroavan) mielipidettä ei kysytä siitä, haluatko että tietojasi kirkon arkistoissa säilytetään. Eipä edes anneta tietoa siitä, MISSÄ siinä tapauksessa - edes maanosa ei ole selvä, Eurooppa vai Yhdysvallat.
Toiseksi se outous, että et voi saada edes jäsenenä ollessasi kopiota jäsenkirjastasi. Eikö ole aivan hullua? Mikähän senkin estää?
Kolmanneksi se todella mystinen juttu, että hallinnosta kertovaa Yleiskäsikirjaa eivät rivijäsenet saa normaaliin käyttöön. Jos ihmettelet jotain asiaa, joudut anomaan piispalta lupaa nähdä juuri se kohta.
Kuitenkin käsikirja koskee nimenomaan jäsenten kohtelua ja kirkon käytäntöjä.
Olen päätellyt, että MAP-kirkon hallinto on samassa asemassa kuin sen temppelirituaalit: "pyhiä" ja ennen kaikkea salaisia.
"On oikeus myös päättää siitä missä EI säilytetä, esim. jossakin sellaisessa yhteisössä missä ei enää ole jäsen, vai olenko ymmärtänyt jotakin väärin? "
Mutta kun kirkon toiminnan kannalta tuota tietoa tulee säilyttää...
"Onko siellä ilmoitustaululla jokin tietosuojaohje koskien nimenomaan kirkosta eronneita?"
Siellä on ykeisesti ottaen lausunto miten tietoja säilytetään kirkossa ja mitä oikeuksia jäsenillä on ko. asina suhteen.
"Eikös se tiedote silloin ole vähän väärässä paikassa eikä mene perille kohderyhmälle?"
No, se ryhmä joka jo on eronnut kirkosta ei tosiaankaan saa tuota selville, käymättä lukemasssa sitä - mikä lienee ei ole miellyttävä kokemus - siis mennä takaisin kirkkoon tuota lukemaan .. yritän etsiä jos tuon jostakin saisi käsiin sähköisessä muodossa.
"Onhan se huolehtivaista ajatella että tiedot on valmiina siltä varalta että ihminen päättääkin liittyä uudestaan."
Ei pelkästään siksi , vaan ...
"Mutta ei se varmaan sitä uudestaan liittymistä estäisikään jos niitä entisiä tietoja ei olisi talletettuna?
Mutta kun liittyminen ei uudelleen liittyessä menekään tavalla A vaan tavalla B (mm. ei kasteta, ellei erikseen haluta sitä jne...).
ja tietyissa tapauksissa ei kirkoon voi liittyä enään, joten jossakin täytyy olla tieto siitä että miten ko. henkilö erosi.
"Tässä nyt on yksi esimerkki sellaisesta keskusjohtoisesta byrokratiasta jota mormonikirkossa on paljon ja jota kumarretaan kuin suurempaakin doktriinia."
Ei nyt ihan, vaan se on käytännön sanelema juttu.
Siis muitetaan nyt että ei niitä eronneiden arkistoja kukaan käy läpi (todellakaan kukaan) koskaan .... ne vain ovat ... x-files ...
Ellei sitten ko. henkilö liittyessään takaisin kerro että hän on ollut jäsen tai joku tiedä että näin oli...
Hallinto ei ole pyhää ja salaista.
Tietojen säilyttämiseen pyydetään lupa (siinä kastelomakkeessa on ruksi sitä varten). Ja kuka tahansa voi perua tuon luvan, joka siis minun mielestäni tarkoittaa sitä että ko. kirkon jäsenen tietoja ei säilytetä toetokoneella tilastoitavassa muodossa... JOSSAKIN pitää olla jäsenen tiedot .. sehän on selvää... Vai eikö ole?
Ja siinä tietosuojaa koskevassa lapussa ilmoitustaululla nimenomaan mainitaan että noita jäsenrekisteritietoja voidana myöskin säilyttää Suoen ulkopuolella... Jos et olle tyytyvöinne siihen että maita ei siinä mainita, niin valita tietosuojavaltuutetulle, äläkä tällä levitä sellaista juttua josta et mitään tiedä.
"Toiseksi se outous, että et voi saada edes jäsenenä ollessasi kopiota jäsenkirjastasi."
Miksi et saisi? Senkus pyydät sitä...
"Eikö ole aivan hullua? Mikähän senkin estää?"
Niin onkin väiteesi, mikään sitä ei estä. Nimenomaan Suomen laki antaa sihen oikeuden. HUOH!
Ja sitten taas:
"Kolmanneksi se todella mystinen juttu, että hallinnosta kertovaa Yleiskäsikirjaa eivät rivijäsenet saa normaaliin käyttöön."
Koska se ei ole jäsenille tarkoitettu koottu opus, vaan seurakunnan ja vaarnan johtajistolle (joita siis on iso kasa...).
"Jos ihmettelet jotain asiaa, joudut anomaan piispalta lupaa nähdä juuri se kohta."
no, voi voi. Joka tapauksessa aina löytyy kyselijöitä ja kaikkia vastauksia ei edes ole tuossa kirjassa... Pitäisikö kirkon siis painaa 12 miljoonaa kirjaa ja jakaa ne jäsenilleen ....?
"mormoneille.
Kuten jo kävi ilmi, sinun (eronneen tai eroavan) mielipidettä ei kysytä siitä, haluatko että tietojasi kirkon arkistoissa säilytetään. Eipä edes anneta tietoa siitä, MISSÄ siinä tapauksessa - edes maanosa ei ole selvä, Eurooppa vai Yhdysvallat.
Toiseksi se outous, että et voi saada edes jäsenenä ollessasi kopiota jäsenkirjastasi. Eikö ole aivan hullua? Mikähän senkin estää?
Kolmanneksi se todella mystinen juttu, että hallinnosta kertovaa Yleiskäsikirjaa eivät rivijäsenet saa normaaliin käyttöön. Jos ihmettelet jotain asiaa, joudut anomaan piispalta lupaa nähdä juuri se kohta.
"Kuitenkin käsikirja koskee nimenomaan jäsenten kohtelua ja kirkon käytäntöjä."
Nimenomaan kaikkea muutakin. Ja HYVIN VÄHÄN sellaista milla oikeasti on normaalille jäsenelle mitään infomatiivista arvoa... Kaikki kun suunnilleen joka tapauksessa tuntevat miten kirkko toimii...
ja mikä estää panemasta Yleiskäsikirjaa seurakuntien kirjastoon vaikka kaikkien luettavaksi vapaasti ilman että piispa istuu vahtimassa mitä sieltä lukee? Tuo on niin kummallista että en ole koskaan missään muualla kuullut. Tai no skientologit järkyttyy jos joku "paljastaa" niiden opuksista jotain. Siinä onkin hyvä vertailukohta.
Siellä kirjassa juuri lukee ettei jäsenelle saa antaa kopiota omista papereistaan. Tunnustaako Suomen laki tuommoista vai ei, hyvä on ellei tunnusta, mutta miksi siellä ylipäänsä sellainen kurja STASI-sääntö on?
Kyllä te olette omituista sakkia en muuta sano.
noin vaan ei voida poistaa minkäänlaisia tietoja. Lisäyksiä niihin voidaan tehdä. Esimerkiksi, että asianomainen henkilö on eronnut po. yhteisöstä.
Useimmissa yhteisöissä varsinaisen rekisterin lisäksi merkintöjä syntyy yhteisön hallinnon pöytäkirjoihin otettaessa uusia jäseniä tai myönnettäessä heille ero.
Pitäisikö pöytäkirjatkin hävittää yhteisöjen tekemistä päätöksistä?
Mikäli, rekisteriä pidetään kortistomuodossa joka ei nykyisin ole tavallista ei numeroidusta kortistosta voida poistaa ainuttakaan korttia.
Suomessa menettely on täysin MAP kirkosta riippumatta kirjattu ao. säädöksiin.
Tuliko tämä nyt selväksi?
Minä vaan kysyn. Mikäli sinä Zappa olet johonkin yhteisöön liittynyt, nimesi löytyy tuon yhteisön asiakirjoista tietyin varauksin, ainakin ensimmäiseen tuomiopäivään asti. Tietojen säilymistä edelleen vahvistaa niiden jäljennösten siirtyminen valtakunnan rajojen yli, jota tapahtunee mm. MAP kirkossa, joten olkaa rauhallisia tiedot kyllä säilyvät.
Kokonaan kaikkien rekistereiden välttäminen saattaisi periaatteessa olla mahdollista, mikäli äitinne olisi synnyttänyt teidät salaa, saunan takana. Tällaistakin tiedetään sattuneen josta tiedosta on välittömästi tehty rekistereissä säilyviä merkintöjä.
Lämpimin rekisteröinti terveisin Turust!
Olkoon siten vaikka 10 miljoonaa jos se tekee sinut tyytyväiseksi... besides the point ...
Se että kirja olisi kaikkien saatavílla, aiheuttaisi yksinkertaisesti sen että seurakunnassa olisi joukko ihmisiä jotka katsoisivat etä juuri heidän näkemyksensä asioiden hoidosta on juuri se oikea.... tuossa yksi hyvä syy...
Nytkin sellaisa on tarpeeksi , ainakin 1 per seurakunta...
"Tai no skientologit järkyttyy jos joku "paljastaa" niiden opuksista jotain. Siinä onkin hyvä vertailukohta."
Heidän opuksensa onkin suojattu ihan omastakin puolesta niin että siitä ei todellakaan saa kukaan muu kuin asiaan "vihkiytyneet" lukea... Ei sovi Kirkon opukseen ... eli ei ole hyvä vertailukohta.
"Siellä kirjassa juuri lukee ettei jäsenelle saa antaa kopiota omista papereistaan."
Missä kohtaa? ....
"Tunnustaako Suomen laki tuommoista vai ei,"
Ei tietystikään, etkö lukenut aikaisemmin postaamani juttua jossa juuri totesin että tuo kirja ei ole Suomen lain yläpuolella????
"hyvä on ellei tunnusta, mutta miksi siellä ylipäänsä sellainen kurja STASI-sääntö on?
Missä kohtaa?
Church Handbook
of Instructions
Book 1
Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics
Published by
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
Salt Lake City, Utah
1998 by Intellectual Reserve, Inc.
All rights reserved
Printed in the United States of America
English approval: 9/98
Contents
1. General, Area, and Regional Administration
2. Stake Administration
3. Ward Administration
4. Interviews and Counseling
5. Ordinances and Blessings
6. Callings and Releases
7. Meetings
8. Temples and Marriage
9. Missionary Service
10. Church Discipline
11. Single Members and Students
12. Church Educational System
13. Military Relations
14. Records and Reports
15. Finances
16. Physical Facilities
17. Creating, Changing, or Naming Church Units
18. Church Policies
[Complete table of contents is placed as a later document
to aid in electronic format reability.
Brief Table of Contents , major topics only,
not yet fully hyper-linked.]
Supplements
* Understanding and Helping Those Who Have Homosexual Problems
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders of Single Members
* Helping Unwed Birth Parents: A Guide for Ecclesiastical Leaders
* 1991 Supplement to the 1989 General Handbook of Instructions
Introduction to the Church Handbook of
Introduction
The Lord admonished, "Wherefore, now let every man learn his duty, and
to act in the office in which he is appointed, in all diligence" (D&C
107:99; see also D&C 105:10).
Church leaders should seek personal revelation to help them learn and
fulfill the duties of their callings.
Studying the scriptures and the teachings of latter-day prophets will
also help leaders learn their duties. The Lord has admonished leaders to
treasure up in their minds continually the words of God so they will be
receptive to the influence of the Spirit (see D&C 84:85).
Leaders also learn their duties by studying the instructions in Church
handbooks. These instructions can facilitate revelation if they are used
to provide an understanding of principles, policies, and procedures to
apply when seeking the guidance of the Spirit.
Introduction to the Church Handbook of Instructions
To reduce and simplify information on Church administration, most
handbooks and other instructions have been consolidated into the Church
Handbook of Instructions, which consists of two books:
* Book 1: Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics. This book is similar to
the former General Handbook of Instructions. For the most part it
includes information that only stake presidencies and bishoprics
need. However, other stake and ward leaders may have access to
this information as needed for reference.
* Book 2: Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders. This book provides
instructions for administering priesthood quorums and auxiliaries.
It also provides instructions on Church programs, activities,
leadership, and selected policies. This publication is bound as a
single book for stake presidencies, bishoprics, high priests group
leaders, elders quorum presidents, and auxiliary presidents.
Individual sections are published for leaders who do not need the
entire book.
Superseded Publications
As of 1 January 1999, the Church Handbook of Instructions supersedes the
following publications, which should be discarded:
* General Handbook of Instructions [1998]
* 1991 Supplement to the 1989 General Handbook of Instructions
* Melchizedek Priesthood Leadership Handbook
* Aaronic Priesthood Leadership Handbook
* Stake Mission Handbook
* Temple and Family History Leadership Handbook
* Relief Society Handbook
* Young Women Leadership Handbook
* Primary Handbook
* Primary Handbook Supplement
* Sunday School Handbook
* Activities Committee Handbook
* Church Music Handbook
* Stake and Ward Clerk Handbook
* Public Affairs Handbook
* Member Progress Reporting Instructions
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders of Single Members
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on the Church Educational System
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on Institutes Of Religion
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on Military Relations
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on Physical Facilities (United
States and Canada)
* Instructions for Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders on Sports and
Recreation Activities
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders on Church Magazines
* Instructions for Priesthood Leaders and Librarians about
Meetinghouse Libraries
* Instructions for Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders on Primary
* Instructions for Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders on Sunday School
* Instructions for Priesthood and Auxiliary Leaders on Teacher
Development
* Gospel Literacy Guidelines for Priesthood and Relief Society Leaders
* Helping Unwed Birth Parents: A Guide for Ecclesiastical Leaders
* Bulletin issues preceding 1999 (except the March 1993 Special
Bulletin)
Page xiii
Although the information in Providing in the Lord's Way: A Leader's
Guide to Welfare is included in the Church Handbook of Instructions, it
will continue to be published as a separate document.
Updates and Supplements to Instructions
Occasionally the information in the Church Handbook of Instructions will
be updated or supplemented through the Bulletin, Notices, and other
correspondence from the First Presidency, Quorum of the Twelve, and
Presiding Bishopric. When this occurs, leaders should write the change
in their copies of the handbooks. Leaders should keep handbooks and
these supplementary materials together.
Questions about Instructions
Leaders who have questions about information in the Church Handbook of
Instructions, or about issues that are not addressed, should direct the
questions to their immediate presiding authority.
Application in Branches, Districts, and Missions
Unless the context shows otherwise, the terms bishop and bishopric in
the Church Handbook of Instructions refer also to branch presidents and
branch presidencies. The terms stake president and stake presidency
refer also to district presidents and district presidencies. References
to wards and stakes usually apply also to branches, districts, and
missions.
Branch, district, and mission presidents should follow these
instructions as far as they are applicable. A mission president should
have the approval of his Area Presidency if he believes he needs to
modify the application of these instructions in his mission.
Distribution of Book 1
Book 1: Stake Presidencies and Bishoprics should be distributed as follows:
* General Authorities, Area Authority Seventies, general Church
department heads, general auxiliary presidencies, directors for
temporal affairs (1 copy each)
* Temple presidency (4 copies)
* Stake presidency (5 copies)
* Bishopric (4 copies)
* Mission presidency (3 copies)
* District presidency (5 copies)
* Branch presidency (3 copies)
Book1 has been prepared solely for use by general and local Church
officers to administer the affairs of the Church. The entire book should
not be duplicated. However, the stake president or bishop may authorize
portions to be duplicated for high councilors and others as needed.
When Church officers who have a copy of Book 1 are released, they should
give the copy promptly to their successor or to their presiding authority.
List of Items Referenced
The Church Handbook of Instructions refers to many other Church-produced
materials, such as forms, manuals, and certificates. An alphabetical
list of the materials that are referenced in this handbook is provided
below. If item numbers have been assigned, they are provided below
rather than in the text of this handbook. Most of these materials are
available through Church distribution centers.
Aaronic Priesthood Record and Certificate form (35857)
A Guide to Quality Seminary Graduation Exercises (32372)
A Member's Guide to Temple and Family History Work (34697)
Annual Tithing Status Report
A Parent's Guide (31125)
Application to the First Presidency form (35789)
Baptism Record form (35919)
Bishop's Order for Commodities forms (33585 and 31422)
Caring for the Needy videocassette (part of Essentials of Welfare,
53045)
Certificate of Appointment (33120)
Child Blessing Record and Certificate form (35856)
Church Educational System Publications Catalog (item number varies
by year)
Church Name and Logotype Guidelines for Local Units (33654)
Confidential Report on Proposed Temple Ordinance Workers form (34449)
Confirmation Record/Baptism and Confirmation Certificate form (35920)
Page xiv
Directory of General Authorities and Officers
Endowed from on High: Temple Preparation Seminar Teacher's Manual
(35322)
Family Home Evening Resource Book (31106)
For the Strength of Youth (pamphlet 34285; card 34287)
Gospel Principles (31110)
A Guide to Quality Seminary Graduation Exercises (32372)
Identification and Prevention of Suicidal Behavior (32253)
Identification tag for LDS military members (33118)
Information and Suggestions for Patriarchs (31257)
Instructions for Clothing the Dead Who Have Received Their
Endowments (31461)
Instructions for Making Temple Clothing (31460)
LDS identification tag (for members in the military; 33118)
Limited-Use Recommend (32602)
Meetinghouse Artwork Brochure (34826)
Melchizedek Priesthood Record and Certificate form (35858)
Member Progress Report-Stake / District (34903)
Member Progress Report-Ward / Branch (34902)
A Member's Guide to Temple and Family History Work (34697)
Military scripture set (31197)
Missionary Recommendation forms packet (31957)
Missionary Health-Dental Record
Missionary Personal Insurance Information form
Missionary Recommendation form
Missionary Resume' for Couples and Single Women
Missionary Tuberculosis Screening Report form (31966)
Needs and Resources Analysis form (32290)
New Patriarch Recommendation form (31674)
Officers Sustained (Branch in Mission) form (32303)
Officers Sustained (District) form (32301)
Officers Sustained (Stake) form (32300)
Officers Sustained (Ward/ Branch in Stake) form (32302)
A Parent's Guide (31125)
Patriarchal Blessing Recommend (31-017)
Performance Contract form (33811)
Personal Progress book (31491)
Preventing and Responding to Child Abuse (35665)
Preventing and Responding to Spouse Abuse (35869)
Providing in the Lord's Way: A Leader's Guide to Welfare (32296)
Recommendation for New Bishop form (31747)
Recommendation for New Counselor to Stake President form (31746)
Recommendation for Part-Time Church-Service Missionary form (35813)
Recommend for Living Ordinances (32601)
Recommend to Perform an Ordinance form (32595)
Report of Administrative Action form (32427)
Report of Church Disciplinary Action form (33493)
Request for Contact form (32387)
Request for Ordinance Information form (32388)
Request for Supplemental Financial Assistance for Full-time
Missionary form (31964)
Responding to Abuse: Helps for Ecclesiastical Leaders (32248)
Scouting Handbook (United States 35814; Canada 35810)
Special Bulletin (March 1993; 35050)
Stake and District Historical Summary (32299)
Stake/District Audit of Membership Records form (35584)
Stake/District Organization Application form (34203)
Teaching-No Greater Call (33043)
Temple Media Kit (32507)
Temple Recommend (32600)
Temple recommend binder (Recommends to Enter the Temple; 32599)
Tithing and Other Offerings form (31592)
Understanding and Helping Those Who Have Homosexual Problems:
Suggestions for Ecclesiastical Leaders (32250)
Ward/Branch Organization Application form (34202)
Page xv
[Brief Table of Contents, major topics only, not yet fully hyper-linked.]
1. General, Area, and Regional Administration 1
General Church Administration 1
Area Administration 1
Regional Administration 1
2. Stake Administration 3
Purpose and Organization of a Stake 3
Stake Presidency 3
Presiding High Priest 3
Teach the Gospel 3
Common Judge 7
Direct the Church Welfare Program and High Council 9
Stake Executive Secretary 9
Stake Clerk 9
Assistant Stake Clerks 9
3. Ward Administration 11
Purpose and Organization of a Ward 11
Bishopric 11
Presidency of the Aaronic Priesthood 11
Presiding High Priest 11
Common Judge 14
Administer the Church Welfare Program 14
Ward Executive Secretary 17
Ward Clerk 17
Assistant Ward Clerks 17
4. Interviews and Counseling 19
Interviews 19
Counseling 21
Keeping Confidences 22
Responding to Abuse 22
5. Ordinances and Blessings 23
General Instructions 23
Naming and Blessing Children 25
Baptism 26
Confirmation 29
Sacrament 29
Consecrating Oil 30
Administering to the Sick 30
Conferring the Priesthood and Ordaining to an Office 31
Instructions for Performing an Ordination 33
Record and Certificate of Ordination 33
Father's Blessings and Other Blessings of Dedicating Graves 34
Setting Apart Officers and Teachers 34
Dedicating Homes 34
Patriarchal Blessings 34
Chart of Ordinations 36
6. Callings and Releases 37
Doctrines of Callings and Releases 37
Determining Whom to Call 37
Extending a Calling 38
Sustaining Members in Church Callings 38
Setting Apart Officers and Teachers 39
Ordaining and Setting Apart Bishops 39
Releasing Members from Church Callings 39
Chart of Callings 40
7. Meetings 51
Doctrines Relating to Church Meetings 51
General Guidelines 51
Principles of Effective Church Council and General Meetings 51
Area Meetings 51
Stake Meetings 52
Ward Meetings 54
Funerals 57
Chart of Stake Meetings 60
Chart of Ward Meetings 62
Sunday Meeting Schedules 64
8. Temples and Marriage 65
Preparing to Receive Temple Ordinances 65
Making Plans to Go to a Temple 65
Recommends to Enter a Temple 65
Issuing Recommends in Special Circumstances 67
Issuing Limited-Use Recommends 68
Temple Clothing and Garments 69
Marriage 70
Temple Marriage 70
Marriage in a Temple for Time Only 71
Civil Marriage 71
Sealing Policies 73
Restoration of Temple Blessings (after Excommunication or Name
Removal) 76
Verifying Ordinances Necessary to Receive the Endowment 77
Temple Ordinance Workers 77
9. Missionary Service 79
Doctrines Pertaining to Missionary Service 79
Preparing Full-Time Missionaries 79
Age and Term of Service for Full-Time Members Who Are Not Eligible
for Full-Time Missions 80
Ensuring Worthiness and Ability to Serve 81
Financing Full-Time Missionary Service 82
Submitting Recommendation Papers for Full-Time Missionaries 83
After Full-Time Missionaries Are Called 83
Full-Time Missionaries in the Mission Field 85
Belated Confessions 86
Release of Full-Time Missionaries 87
Assignments for Full-Time Missionary Couples and Older Individuals 88
Church-Service Missionaries 88
Recommending Church-Service Missionaries 89
Volunteer Service 89
Stake Mission 89
10. Church Discipline 91
Purposes of Church Discipline 91
Responsibility for Church Discipline 91
Confessions 92
Restitution 93
Investigation 93
Confidentiality 93
Informal Church Discipline 93
Formal Church Discipline 94
Disciplinary Councils 95
When a Disciplinary Council Is Mandatory 95
When a Disciplinary Council May Be Necessary 96
When a Disciplinary Council Is Not Necessary 97
Possible Decisions 97
Leaders Who Are to Participate 97
Notice and Scheduling 98
Procedures of the Council 98
Written Notice of the Decision 100
Announcement of the Decision 100
Appeals 101
Reports on Disciplinary Councils 101
Membership Records After Discipline Has Been Imposed 101
Procedures in Exceptional Circumstances 102
Considerations in Church Discipline 103
Fellowshipping 104
Ending Formal Probation, Disfellowshipment, or Excommunication 104
Restoration of Blessings 106
Retention of Records 107
Documents Required to Complete Confidential Actions or
Applications 108
11. Single Members and Students 109
Single Members in the Church 109
Student Stakes and Wards 110
Policies for Young Single Adult, Single Adult, and Student Units 111
12. Church Educational System 113
Programs of the Church Educational System 113
Administration of the Church Educational System 113
Worthiness of CES Employees and Volunteers 114
Religious Education 114
Church Universities and Colleges 117
Adult and Continuing Education 117
Elementary and Secondary Education (in Some Areas outside the
United States) 118
13. Military Relations 119
Purpose of the Military Relations Program 119
Church Orientation 119
Stake Military Relations Leadership 119
Ward Military Relations Leadership 119
Organizing Service Member Groups 120
Service Member Group Leadership 120
Church Responsibilities of LDS Chaplains 121
Records of Members in Military Service 121
Patriarchal Blessings for Members Entering the Military 121
Ordaining Servicemen in Isolated Areas 122
Issuing Temple Recommends to Military Personnel in Isolated Areas 122
Wearing the Garment in the Military 122
14. Records and Reports 123
Purposes of Church Record Keeping 123
Types of Records 123
Stake Record-Keeping Leadership 123
Ward Record-Keeping Leadership 125
Member Progress Reporting 126
Membership Records 127
Removing Names from Church Membership Records 130
Historical Records 131
Confidentiality of Records 131
Records Management 131
15. Finances 133
General Church Financial Leadership 133
Stake Financial Leadership 133
Ward Financial Leadership 133
Contributions by Members 134
Confidentiality of Tithing and Other Offerings 135
Handling and Accounting for Funds 136
Fund-Raising 139
Audits 139
Taxes 140
16. Physical Facilities 141
Purpose 141
Organization 141
Administration of Stake Physical Facilities 142
Policies on Using Church Buildings and Other Property 142
17. Creating, Changing, or Naming Church Units 143
Creating or Changing Church Units 143
Naming Church Units 145
18. Church Policies 147
General Authority and Area Authority Seventy Policies 147
Administrative Policies 147
Policies on Using Church Buildings and Other Property 133
Medical and Health Policies 135
Policies on Moral Issues 157
Index Index-1
[Complete table of contents is placed as a later document
to aid in electronic format reability.]
1 - General, Area, and Regional Administration
General Church Administration
First Presidency
The President of the Church is the prophet, seer, and revelator. As the senior apostle and president of the Melchizedek Priesthood, he presides over the entire Church (see D&C 107:8, 65-67, 91-92). He is the only person on earth who may use (or authorize another person to use) the keys of the priesthood for governing the entire Church (see D&C 43:1-4; 81:2; 132:7). He is also the only person on earth who is authorized to receive revelation for the entire Church (see D&C 28:2; 132:7).
The President's counselors are also prophets, seers, and revelators. The President and his counselors form a Quorum of the First Presidency of the Church (see D&C 107:22).
Quorum of the Twelve Apostles
Members of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles are "special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world" (D&C 107:23). They act under the direction of the First Presidency "to build up the church, and regulate all the affairs of the same in all nations" (D&C 107:33). They "open the door [to the nations] by the proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ" (D&C 107:35).
The Twelve direct the calling of stake patriarchs (see D&C 107:39). They also "ordain and set in order all the other officers of the church" (D&C 107:58).
Along with the First Presidency, the Twelve are prophets, seers, and revelators and hold the keys of the kingdom of God on earth (see D&C 27:12-13; 110:11-16; 112:30-32).
Quorums of the Seventy
Members of the Quorums of the Seventy are "called to preach the gospel, and to be especial witnesses unto the Gentiles and in all the world" (D&C 107:25). They work "under the direction of the Twelve ... in building up the church and regulating all the affairs of the same in all nations" (D&C 107:34). In their quorums, the Seventy are presided over by the Presidents of the Seventy (see D&C 107:93-94).
Those who are called to the First and Second Quorums of the Seventy are designated General Authorities with jurisdiction throughout the Church. Those who are called to other Quorums of the Seventy are designated Area Authority Seventies with
jurisdiction limited to the areas in which they are assigned. Area Authority Seventies are assigned to quorums according to geographic location.
Presiding Bishopric
The Presiding Bishopric is the presidency of the Aaronic Priesthood of the Church (see D&C 107:15). Under the direction of the First Presidency, the Presiding Bishopric administers the temporal affairs of the Church (see D&C 107:68).
Area Administration
An area is the largest geographic division of the Church.
Area Presidency
The First Presidency assigns an Area Presidency to preside over each area under the direction of the First Presidency and the Twelve. Area Presidents are assigned from the First or Second Quorum of the Seventy. Their counselors may be assigned from any Quorum of the Seventy.
Area Authority Seventies
Area Authority Seventies serve under the direction of the Quorum of the Twelve, the Presidents of the Seventy, and the Area Presidency where they are assigned. Like other Seventies, they may be assigned to preside at stake conferences, create and reorganize stakes, set apart stake presidencies, and ordain and set apart bishops. They also may serve on area councils and as counselors in Area Presidencies. In addition, they may be assigned to tour missions and assist with training in stakes, missions, and districts. They may be given other responsibilities as needed.
Regional Administration
Areas of the Church are divided into regions for welfare purposes only. When creating or restructuring welfare regions, Area Presidencies obtain the concurrence of the Presiding Bishopric and the General Welfare Executive Committee.
Area Presidencies organize a regional welfare committee for each welfare region. The composition and responsibilities of this committee are outlined on pages 5l-52.
Page 1[ Page 2 blank]
2. Stake Administration
Purpose and Organization of a Stake
Most geographic areas of the Church are divided into stakes. A stake normally is composed of five to twelve wards and branches. The term stakecomes from the prophecies of Isaiah, who described latter-day Zion as a tent or tabernacle that would be held secure by stakes (see Isaiah 33:20; 54:2). The stakes of Zion are like the stakes of a large tent that hold it secure so it protects all who enter.
The purpose of a stake is to be "a defense, and ... a refuge from the storm, and from wrath when it shall be poured out ... upon the whole earth" (D&C 115:6). Stakes are gathering places where Church members can serve and strengthen each other, become unified, and receive gospel ordinances and instruction.
Stake Presidency
The stake president holds the priesthood keys to preside over the stake and direct the work of the Church in the stake. He and his counselors minister to stake members in love, helping "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1-.39).
The stake president has four principal responsibilities in presiding over a stake:
1. He is the presiding high priest,
2. He is a common judge.
3. He directs the Church welfare program and operations.
4. He oversees finances, records, reports, and properties.These responsibilities are outlined in this section. The stake president and his counselors should seek the Lord's guidance in fulfilling them.
The stake president should delegate many assignments to his counselors, high councilors, the stake executive secretary, the stake clerk, and assistant stake clerks. This allows him to concentrate on duties that he alone should ordinarily do.
If the stake president is absent, ill, or otherwise unable to perform his duties, a counselor may act in his place temporarily except as noted in this handbook. The counselor is to consult with the Area President if he has questions about acting for the stake president.
Presiding High Priest
The stake president has the following responsibilities as the presiding high priest in the stake. His counselors assist him.
Teach the Gospel
Members of the stake presidency are teachers. They teach the gospel in meetings, classes, and interviews. They also bear their testimonies often.
The stake president and his counselors base their teaching on the scriptures and the words of the latter-day prophets (see D&C 42:12; 52:9). They teach with power and by the Spirit, strengthening members' faith in the Savior and their commitment to obey His commandments (see D&C 42:14; 43:15).
Members of the stake presidency oversee others who teach the gospel in the stake. They ensure that teaching is effective and doctrinally correct. They also encourage members to study, teach, and live the gospel in the home.
For more information about teaching, see pages 300-306 in Book2.
Instruct Leaders
Members of the stake presidency instruct leaders in doctrines, responsibilities, policies, and procedures. This instruction should inspire leaders to grow spiritually and seek the Lord's guidance in fulfilling their callings.
Resources for instructing leaders include the scriptures, teachings of the latter-day prophets, Church handbooks, and other Church-produced training materials.
Oversee Efforts to Accomplish the Mission of the Church
Missionary Work (Proclaiming the Gospel). Members of the stake presidency have the following responsibilities for missionary work:
They set an example by finding and preparing people for the missionaries to teach and by fellowshipping new members. They also encourage members to participate in these efforts.
They ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to missionary work are taught regularly in stake and ward meetings.
Page 3
They organize and oversee the stake mission (see pages 245-46 in Book 2).
The stake president interviews, recommends, and sets apart full-time missionaries. He also interviews and releases them at the completion of their missions. (See pages 79-89.)
The stake president meets regularly with the full-time mission president to coordinate the work of the stake mission and full-time missionaries. This includes determining the assistance that full-time missionaries will give in activation efforts. If necessary, stake presidents and mission presidents may assign their counselors to represent them in this meeting.
The stake president and full-time mission president determine whether and to what extent Church members should provide meals for missionaries and rent parts of their homes to missionaries. The stake president recommends the number and location of full-time missionaries to be assigned within the stake. At the mission president's request, the stake president may interview or counsel specific missionaries He also may conduct baptismal interviews of converts in special cases when requested by the mission president. For more information, see pages 26 and 85.
Spiritual and Temporal Welfare (Perfecting the Saints). Each member of the stake presidency should set an example in spiritual welfare by praying, serving, keeping covenants, and striving for virtue and holiness in his own life (see D&C 38:24; Moroni 10:32-33). The stake presidency sets the spiritual tone in the stake.
One of the stake presidency's most important responsibilities is helping members build spiritual strength. The stake presidency should pray continually to know how to do this. Suggestions include teaching and testifying of the gospel, teaching members to pray and study the scriptures, emphasizing the importance of the family, helping members prepare to receive all essential ordinances and keep the associated covenants, providing opportunities to serve, making meetings edifying, and showing love by ministering to members individually.
Members of the stake presidency set an example in temporal welfare by striving to become self-reliant and by caring for the poor and needy. They also encourage members in these efforts.
Members of the stake presidency teach stake, ward, and quorum leaders their welfare responsibilities. The stake president takes special care to instruct bishops in the principles and policies of administering welfare assistance. As part of his monthly interview with each bishop, the stake president inquires about the welfare of individual ward members and discusses the use of fast offerings and the welfare assistance given to members.
Members of the stake presidency ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to welfare are taught regularly in stake and ward meetings. For information about welfare doctrines and principles, see pages 255-58 in Book 2. For information about the stake presidency's responsibilities to direct the Church welfare program and operations, see pages 7-9 in this book. This information is also available in Providing in the Lord's Way: A Leader's Guide to Welfare.
Temple and Family History Work (Redeeming the Dead). Members of the stake presidency oversee temple and family history work in the stake. They also set an example in doing this work, including regular temple attendance where circumstances allow.
They help members prepare to receive their own temple ordinances. They also encourage members to identify their kindred dead and provide temple ordinances for them.
They ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to temple and family history work are taught regularly in stake and ward meetings.
They interview stake members for temple recommends. They also teach bishoprics how to conduct these interviews and issue recommends.
They determine whether a stake Family History Center (TM) is needed and whether the stake should participate in family record extraction. Where these are approved, members of the stake presidency ensure that they are properly staffed and supervised.
For more information, see pages 65-77 in this book and pages 261-70 in Book 2.
Preside over the Melchizedek Priesthood
Members of the stake presidency have the following responsibilities in presiding over the Melchizedek Priesthood in the stake:
1. Serve as the presidency of the stake high priests quorum; the stake president is the quorum president (see page 163 in Book 2).
2. Oversee elders quorums (see page 163 in Book 2).
3. Oversee ordinations to the offices of elder and high priest (see pages 31-33 in this book).
4. Preside over the stake priesthood executive committee and the stake Melchizedek Priesthood committee (see pages 315-16 in Book 2).Page 4
5. Oversee home teaching in the stake (see pages 168-70 in Book 2).
6. Oversee efforts to minister to new and less-active members (see pages 307-10 in Book 2).Oversee the Aaronic Priesthood and Young Women
Members of the stake presidency have the following, responsibilities in overseeing the Aaronic Priesthood and young women in the stake:
1. Preside over the stake Aaronic Priesthood committee and the stake Aaronic Priesthood-Young Women committee (see page 316 in Book 2).
2. Oversee the stake Young Men and Young Women organizations.
3. Instruct bishoprics in their responsibilities for Aaronic Priesthood holders and young women.For more information, see pages 178-79 and 214-15 in Book 2.
Direct the High Council
See page 9.Preside over Stake Committees and Councils
The stake president presides over the stake priesthood executive committee, stake council, stake welfare committee, and stake Melchizedek Priesthood committee.
The stake president usually assigns one of his counselors to preside over the stake Aaronic Priesthood committee, stake Aaronic Priesthood-Young Women committee, and stake committee for single members. The stake president or an assigned counselor is chairman of the stake public affairs council.
For information about these committees and councils, see pages 315-17 in Book 2.
Conduct Stake Business
The stake president conducts stake business with General Authorities and Area Authority Seventies and receives counsel and instructions from them. He also oversees the goals and plans for each part of stake activity. When needed, he recommends the creation, division, or changing of boundaries of stakes and wards (see pages 143-46).
Oversee Callings and Releases
See pages 37-49.Oversee Stake Auxiliaries and Programs
The stake presidency oversees the stake auxiliary organizations:
Relief Society (see page 194 in Book 2)
Young Men (see pages 178-79 in Book 2)
Young Women (see pages 214-15 in Book 2)
Primary (see pages 229-30 in Book 2)
Sunday School (see page 241 in Book 2)The stake president oversees the stake Relief Society. He assigns his counselors to oversee the other auxiliaries under his direction. He also assigns a high councilor to be an adviser to each auxiliary presidency (this is optional for the Relief Society).
The stake presidency ensures that the following Church programs are implemented in the stake and, if necessary, adapted to local circumstances, The stake president usually assigns primary responsibility for each program to one of his counselors. He also assigns a high councilor to help oversee each program (except Church magazines and military relations).
Activities committee (see pages 271-76 in Book 2)
Church education (see pages 113-18 in this book)
Church magazines and Church News (see pages 283-84 in Book 2)
Family history (see pages 261-70 in Book 2)
Meetinghouse library (see pages 285-88 in Book 2)
Military relations (see pages 119-22 in this book)
Music (see pages 289-94 in Book 2)
Physical facilities (see pages 141-42 in this book)
Scouting (where authorized; see the Scouting Handbook)
Single members (see pages 109-12 in this book)
Teacher improvement (see pages 305-6 in Book 2)
Welfare (see pages 255-60 in Book 2)Preside over Stake Meetings
The stake presidency plans the stake meetings listed on pages 52-54 in this book and pages 315-17 in Book 2. The stake president presides at these meetings unless a General Authority or Area Authority Seventy attends. The stake president's counselors may conduct these meetings and may preside if the stake president is absent.
Page 5
Oversee the Stake Patriarch
The stake president presides over the stake patriarch and should develop a close relationship with him. Guidelines for calling, ordaining, instructing and overseeing the stake patriarch are provided in the following paragraphs. For information about patriarchal blessings, see pages 34-35 and the bookletInformation and Suggestions for Patriarchs.
Calling, Sustaining, and Ordaining a Stake Patriarch. The Quorum of the Twelve directs the calling of stake patriarchs (see D&C 107:39). To recommend a man to be called as a stake patriarch, the stake president completes a New Patriarch Recommendation form and submits it to the Quorum of the Twelve. In making this recommendation, he should fast and pray for the Spirit to direct him. The recommendation should be approved by his counselors.
A man whom the stake president recommends as stake patriarch should be a worthy Melchizedek Priesthood holder. He should be mature in the gospel and the Church, a worthy patriarch in his own home, and sensitive to guidance from the Spirit. He should have received his own patriarchal blessing, and normally he should be age 55 or older.
If the Quorum of the Twelve approves the recommendation, the stake president may be authorized to interview and call the patriarch, present his name for a sustaining vote at the next stake conference or stake general priesthood meeting, and ordain him. Because the calling of patriarch is an office of the Melchizedek Priesthood, a patriarch is ordained, not set apart. A stake president may not assign a counselor to ordain a patriarch.
Calling a Second Stake Patriarch. The Quorum of the Twelve normally does not approve calling a second patriarch for a stake unless the present patriarch is unable to give the number of blessings requested or has been given nonfunctioning status. Nor does the Quorum of the Twelve normally approve an additional patriarch simply because a stake is geographically large or includes members who do not speak the majority language. If a stake includes members who speak different languages, bishops and stake presidencies may authorize them to go to a patriarch in a nearby stake who can give the blessing in the member's own language.
Instructing a Newly Called Stake Patriarch. The stake president instructs a newly called patriarch in the sacred, revelatory nature of the office before the patriarch begins giving blessings. The stake president carefully reviews with him the instructions in Information and Suggestions for Patriarchs.
Supervising the Work of the Stake Patriarch. The stake president supervises the work of the stake patriarch as outlined in Information and Suggestions for Patriarchs. He interviews the patriarch at least twice each year. He reviews blessings the patriarch has given. He also discusses the patriarch's feelings about the work, the welfare of his family, and any other matters on which the patriarch seeks or needs counsel.
The stake president ensures that copies of transcribed blessings are given promptly to recipients. He also ensures that the originals of all blessings are sent to the Church Historical Department at least every two years.
Nonfunctioning Status for a Patriarch. The call of a patriarch is for a lifetime, so he is not released. However, he may be given nonfunctioning status, excusing him from giving blessings.
If a patriarch is incapacitated by age or illness, as determined by the stake president or the patriarch, the stake president writes a recommendation to the Quorum of the Twelve that the patriarch be given nonfunctioning status. If the Twelve approve the recommendation, the stake president does not have the patriarch's name presented for a sustaining vote at the next stake conference when Church officers are sustained. The stake president notifies bishops and branch presidents not to send members to that patriarch. He also ensures that all the blessings the patriarch has given are sent to the recipients and to the Church Historical Department.
A patriarch is also given nonfunctioning status if he leaves to serve a mission, is absent from his home for other reasons, moves to a different stake, or is approved to be called to a position of Church administration (see "Patriarchs Who Are Called to Another Church Position" on page 7). In such circumstances, the stake president sends written notification to the Quorum of the Twelve and follows the instructions in the previous paragraph.
A patriarch who has been given nonfunctioning status may continue to give patriarchal blessings to his lineal descendants if he is able to do so. These blessings should be processed as if he were still a functioning patriarch.
Returning a Patriarch to Functioning Status. To return a patriarch to functioning status, the stake president interviews him carefully and sends a written recommendation to the Quorum of the Twelve. If the Twelve approve the recommendation, the stake president has the patriarch presented for a sustaining vote at a stake conference or stake general priesthood meeting.
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Patriarchs Who Move to a Different Stake. When a patriarch moves to a different stake, he should contact his new stake president. If the stake president wants him to serve as a patriarch in the new stake, he contacts the patriarch's former stake president to confirm the patriarch's worthiness and past service. The new stake president then follows the procedure in the preceding paragraph.
If the stake president decides not to recommend having the patriarch serve in the new stake, the patriarch is given nonfunctioning status as explained on page 6.
Patriarchs Who Are Called to Another Church Position. A patriarch may not be called to serve in a position of Church administration, such as bishop, high councilor, or stake president, unless the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve approve the call. Such a request is rarely approved. If it is approved, the patriarch is given nonfunctioning status as explained on page 6.
Direct Public Affairs Efforts
The stake presidency directs public affairs efforts in the stake. Members of the stake presidency also have primary responsibility for the Church's good standing in the community and for relationships with civic and community leaders. The stake president serves as the primary Church spokesman to the news media on matters that pertain to the stake.
The stake president or an assigned counselor organizes and oversees the stake public affairs council. The stake president may also be designated by the Area Presidency to be chairman of a multistake or national public affairs council.
For more information, see pages 295-98 in Book 2.
Perform Civil Marriages
The stake president may perform civil marriages where legally authorized by local government authority (see pages 71-72). He may not assign this to a counselor.
Respond to Accidents and Other Serious Situations
The stake president should be notified promptly of any injuries, illnesses, accidents, and property damage that occur on Church property or are the result of something that happened during a Church-sponsored activity in the stake. In these situations he should follow the instructions on pages 276-77 in Book 2.
Refer Legal Matters
See page 151.Common judge
As a common judge, the stake president conducts worthiness interviews (see page 19), counsels stake members (see pages 21-22), and administers Church discipline (see pages 91-107). He also may be asked to certify the worthiness of Church employees (see page 148).
Direct the Church Welfare Program and Operations
Oversee Welfare Assistance in Special Circumstances
Welfare assistance is usually administered by bishops. However, the stake president oversees assistance in the following circumstances.
Fast-Offering Expenditures That Exceed Contributions. When fast-offering expenditures will exceed contributions in a ward, the bishop and stake president counsel together to make sure that the bishop and ward members correctly understand and apply principles of self-reliance and providing for the poor and needy. Procedures for obtaining additional fast offerings from the Church are outlined in instructions sent to stake and ward financial clerks.
Surplus Fast Offerings. Procedures for remitting surplus fast offerings to the Church are outlined in instructions sent to stake and ward financial clerks.
Medical Expenses That Exceed $1,000. If a needy member's medical expenses that will be paid by the Church are expected to exceed $1,000, the stake president's approval is required before the bishop may commit to pay health care providers. If a needy member's medical expenses to be paid by the Church are expected to exceed $5,000, the stake president contacts the Area Presidency for instructions.
Welfare Assistance for Bishops and Stake Presidents. When a bishop or members of his immediate family need welfare assistance, he reviews the needs and proposed assistance with the stake president. The bishop and stake president both sign the bishop's order forms used to obtain the assistance. If fast offering funds are used, the stake president reviews the bills that the fast offerings will pay. A similar procedure is followed when obtaining help for the bishop or his immediate family through LDS Social Services where it exists. A bishop should not expend fast-offering funds or sign a bishop's order for Church welfare assistance for himself or immediate
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family members without the approval and signature of the stake president.
When a stake president or members of his immediate family need welfare assistance, he contacts the bishop of the ward in which he resides. The bishop follows the principles and guidelines governing welfare assistance as he would for any other Church member.
Preside over the Stake Welfare Committee
See pages 315-16 in Book 2.Organize the Stake Bishops' Welfare Council
See page 54.Participate in the Regional Welfare Committee
See pages 51-52.Be the Agent Stake President for Welfare Operations
The Area Presidency assigns an agent stake president to each storehouse, cannery, employment center, production project, and Deseret Industries. This stake president oversees meetings where full-time employees report on the operation. This assignment usually changes every three to five years.
All stakes in the welfare region, not just the agent stake, may be called on to provide volunteer labor to these welfare operations. These efforts are coordinated in regional welfare committee meetings (see pages 51-52).
Organize an Agent Stake Operating Committee
When a stake president is assigned to oversee a Church welfare operation, he organizes an agent stake operating committee composed of himself, the stake bishops' welfare council chairman, the stake Relief Society president, the manager of the operation, and other specialists as needed. This committee meets regularly to provide priesthood guidance and support to the operation manager, ensure that the operation serves needy members appropriately, and coordinate volunteer labor.
Prepare for and Respond to Emergencies
The stake president directs the stake welfare committee in preparing a stake emergency response plan. This plan should be coordinated with similar plans in the welfare region and community. Area Presidencies provide guidelines for preparing the plan.
During an emergency, the stake presidency receives reports from the bishops on the condition of Church members and Church property. The stake presidency then reports to the Area Presidency,
During an emergency, Church leaders should make the services of the Church available to civil authorities. Church leaders also should take independent action in behalf of Church members as needed.
Assign a Bishop to Assist Transients
Where there are two or more wards in the vicinity, the stake president may appoint one bishop to handle all requests from transients. This helps avoid duplication and confusion.
Provide Support to Members in Prisons, Hospitals, and Other Institutions
Stake presidents are encouraged to provide support to members in prisons, hospitals, and other institutions within their boundaries. They should do so within priesthood channels and according to the guidelines established by the Church and the institutions.
The stake president determines the support that is to be provided at each institution. He also supervises the support, assisted by other local priesthood leaders. If the stake needs help providing service to institutions within its boundaries, the Area Presidency may assign a nearby stake or stakes to assist.
The stake president or an assigned bishop may call a priesthood holder to oversee the support that is given to members at these institutions. In prisons, men should be called to work with male inmates, and at least two men, two women, or a husband and wife should be called to work with female inmates.
Worship services for members in prisons, hospitals, and other institutions may be simplified as necessary to meet the needs of those involved. Services usually follow the same format as sacrament meeting except that the sacrament is not administered to inmates in prisons. As an exception to Church policy, when services are held in prisons, inmates may participate by offering prayers or giving talks regardless of their religious affiliation or standing in the Church.
Other support that may be given to members in these institutions includes counseling, home teaching, visiting teaching, Sunday School classes, family
home evening, seminary or institute classes, and other special programs.
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For more information, stake presidents may contact the Priesthood Department at Church headquarters (telephone 1-801-240-2134 or 1-800-453-3860, extension 2134).
Keep Needs and Assistance Confidential
The stake president should keep
confidential the needs of Members and
the help that is provided.
Oversee Finances, Records, Reports, and Properties
See pages 123-42.High Council
The stake presidency calls twelve high priests to form the stake high council (see D&C 102:1). Elders may be considered to serve on the high council but must first be ordained high priests. (District councils may be composed of elders and high priests.) The stake presidency may call military chaplains who live in the stake to serve as high councilors.
Under the direction of the stake presidency, high councilors help oversee the work of the Church in the stake. They have advisory and administrative responsibilities as described below:
1. Represent the stake presidency in high priests groups, elders quorums, wards, and branches. Serve as advisers to stake auxiliary presidencies and the stake mission presidency. Help oversee temple and family history work and the Church programs listed on page 5.
2. Serve on the stake priesthood executive committee, stake council, and stake welfare committee. Serve on the stake Melchizedek Priesthood committee or stake Aaronic Priesthood committee as assigned.
3. Participate in stake disciplinary councils.These responsibilities are explained in detail on pages 163-64 in Book 2.
The high council does not meet unless a member of the stake presidency is present.
Stake Executive Secretary
The stake president or an assigned counselor calls and sets apart a stake executive secretary. He should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be worthy to have a temple recommend.
The executive secretary is an assistant to the stake presidency. He meets with the stake presidency and prepares meeting agendas as instructed. He also attends meetings of the stake priesthood executive committee, stake council, and stake welfare committee.
He coordinates stake business between the stake presidency and high council. He also schedules appointments for the stake presidency. He distributes copies of the Bulletin and other Church publications and correspondence promptly.
He reviews the status of home teaching in the stake with the stake presidency.
He coordinates the Church magazine subscription efforts in the stake (see page 284 in Book 2).
He advises the stake presidency of members who are entering or already in military service. Under the direction of the stake presidency, he coordinates preservice Church orientation in the stake.
He instructs ward executive secretaries as requested by the stake president or by bishops.
Stake Clerk
The stake president or an assigned counselor calls and sets apart a stake clerk. The stake clerk should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be worthy to have a temple recommend. He should be an honest and careful record keeper and a capable teacher and administrator. He also should be qualified to handle financial matters.
The tenure of stake clerks should be sufficient for them to learn their duties and magnify their callings. Stake clerks do not need to be released when a stake presidency is reorganized.
The stake clerk's responsibilities are outlined on pages 123-24 and 133.
Assistant Stake Clerks
The stake president or an assigned counselor may call and set apart one or more assistant stake clerks. These clerks should hold the Melchizedek Priesthood and be worthy to have a temple recommend. The stake presidency may assign them to each part of stake record keeping, such as financial records, member progress reporting, and historical records. Assistant stake clerks who are assigned to financial records should be qualified to handle financial matters.
The responsibilities of assistant stake clerks are outlined on pages 124-25 and 133.
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3. Ward Administration
Purpose and Organization of a Ward
During His mortal ministry, the Savior organized His Church and established congregations of believers. Members of His Church met together to worship, learn the gospel, and serve and strengthen each other.
As in the ancient Church, members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints are organized into congregations. Large congregations are called wards. Small congregations are called branches. The purpose of these congregations is to help a people .come unto Christ, and be perfected in him" (Moroni 10:32).
Bishopric
The bishop holds the priesthood keys to preside over a ward and direct the work of the Church in the ward. He and his counselors minister to ward members in love, helping "bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).
The bishop has five principal responsibilities in presiding over a ward:
1. He is president of the Aaronic Priesthood.
2. He is the presiding high priest.
3. He is a common judge.
4. He administers the Church welfare program.
5. He oversees finances, records, and the use and security of the meetinghouse.These responsibilities are outlined in this section. The bishop and his counselors should seek the Lord's guidance in fulfilling them.
The bishop should delegate many assignments to his counselors, the ward executive secretary, the ward clerk, assistant ward clerks, and quorum and auxiliary leaders. This allows him to concentrate on duties that he alone should ordinarily do.
If the bishop is absent, ill, or otherwise unable to perform his duties, a counselor may act in his place temporarily except as noted in this handbook. The counselor is to consult with the stake president if he has questions about acting for the bishop.
Presidency of the Aaronic Priesthood
The bishopric is the presidency of the Aaronic Priesthood in the ward (D&C 107:15). The bishop is also president of the priests quorum in the ward (see D&C 107:87-88). The bishopric should study passages in the scriptures and instructions in the handbooks that pertain to the Aaronic Priesthood. The bishop and his counselors have similar responsibilities for young women in the ward as they have for Aaronic Priesthood holders.
Members of the bishopric watch over and nurture young men and young women in the ward. They help Aaronic Priesthood holders accomplish the purposes of the Aaronic Priesthood (see pages 177-78 in Book 2). They help young women live the Young Women values and standards of personal worthiness (see pages 211-12 in Book 2).
The bishopric oversees Aaronic Priesthood quorums and Young Women classes. The bishopric also oversees the ward Young Men and Young Women organizations. The bishop presides over the ward Aaronic Priesthood committee and bishopric youth committee.
For more information, see pages 180-81 and 216-17 in Book 2.
Presiding High Priest
The bishop has the following responsibilities as the presiding high priest in the ward. His counselors assist him.
Teach the Gospel
Members of the bishopric are teachers. They teach the gospel in meetings, classes, and interviews. They also bear their testimonies often.
Members of the bishopric base their teaching on the scriptures and the words of the latter-day prophets (see D&C 42:12; 52:9). They teach with power and by the Spirit, strengthening members' faith in the Savior and their commitment to obey His commandments (see D&C 42:14; 43:15).
The bishop and his counselors oversee and support others who teach the gospel in the ward. They ensure that teaching is effective and doctrinally correct. They also encourage members to study, teach, and live the gospel in the home.
For more information about teaching, see pages 300-306 in Book 2.
Instruct Leaders
Members of the bishopric instruct leaders in doctrines, responsibilities, policies, and procedures. This
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instruction should inspire leaders to grow spiritually and seek the Lord's guidance in fulfilling their callings.
Resources for instructing leaders include the scriptures, teachings of the latter-day prophets, Church handbooks, and other Church-produced training materials.
Oversee Efforts to Accomplish the Mission of the
Church
Missionary Work (Proclaiming the Gospel). Members of the bishopric have the following responsibilities for missionary work:
They set an example by finding and preparing people for the missionaries to teach and by fellowshipping new members. They also encourage members to participate in these efforts.
They ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to missionary work are taught regularly in ward meetings and classes.
They help prospective full-time missionaries prepare to serve missions, particularly young men. The bishop interviews and recommends worthy ward members to serve as full-time missionaries (see pages 79-89).
They direct the efforts of the ward mission leader as a member of the priesthood executive committee (see page 247 in Book 2). They receive regular reports from him on efforts to find and prepare people to be taught the gospel. They also receive reports on the teaching, fellowshipping, retention, and activation efforts of stake missionaries and full-time missionaries serving in the ward.
They oversee the assistance that full-time missionaries give in activation efforts.
They meet investigators who are being taught and keep informed of their progress. A member of the bishopric should attend each baptism.
They oversee efforts to minister to new members in the ward. These responsibilities are outlined on pages 307-10 in Book 2.
Spiritual and Temporal Welfare (Perfecting the Saints). Each member of the bishopric should set an example in spiritual welfare by praying, serving, keeping covenants, and striving for virtue and holiness in his own life (see D&C 38:24; Moroni 10:32-33). The bishopric sets the spiritual tone in the ward.
One of the bishopric's most important responsibilities is helping members build spiritual strength. The bishopric should pray continually to know how to do this. Suggestions include teaching and testifying of the gospel, teaching members to pray and study the scriptures, emphasizing the importance of the family, helping members prepare to receive all essential ordinances and keep the associated covenants, providing opportunities to serve, making meetings edifying, and showing love by ministering to members individually.
Members of the bishopric set an example in temporal welfare by striving to become self-reliant and by caring for the poor and needy. They also encourage members in these efforts.
Members of the bishopric teach priesthood and auxiliary leaders their welfare responsibilities. They also ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to welfare are taught regularly in ward meetings. For information about these doctrines and principles, see pages 255-60 in Book 2. For information about the bishopric's responsibilities to administer the Church welfare program, see pages 14-17 in this book. This information is also available in Providing in the Lord's Way: A Leader's Guide to Welfare.
Temple and Family History Work (Redeeming the Dead). Members of the bishopric oversee temple and family history work in the ward. They also set an example in doing this work, including regular temple attendance where circumstances allow.
They help members prepare to receive their own temple ordinances. They also encourage members to identify their kindred dead and provide temple ordinances for them.
They ensure that the doctrines, principles, and blessings relating to temple and family history work are taught regularly in ward meetings and classes.
They interview ward members for temple recommends. They also help new members, less-active members, and endowed members who have not renewed their recommends for an extended time prepare to go to a temple. The bishop organizes regular temple preparation seminars for these members.
For more information, see pages 65-77 in this book and pages 261-70 in Book 2.
Coordinate the Work of the Melchizedek Priesthood
The bishop and his counselors work closely with the elders quorum president and high priests group leader in watching over quorum and group members, building strength in the quorum and group, and ensuring that the work of the priesthood is accomplished.
Members of the bishopric oversee home teaching in the ward (see pages 168-70 in Book 2).
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They oversee efforts to minister to new members and less-active members (see pages 307-10 in Book 2).
At least quarterly the bishop holds priesthood interviews with the elders quorum president and high priests group leader (see page 19).
Preside over Ward Committees and Councils
The bishop presides over the ward priesthood executive committee, ward council, ward welfare committee, ward Aaronic Priesthood committee, and bishopric youth committee. The bishop usually assigns one of his counselors to preside over the ward committee for single members. For information about these committees and councils, see pages 317-19 in Book 2.
Conduct Ward Business
The bishop conducts ward business with the stake presidency and receives counsel and instructions from presiding authorities. He also oversees the goals and plans for each part of ward activity.
Oversee Callings and Releases
See pages 37-49.Oversee the Performance of Ordinances and Blessings
The bishop oversees the administration of the sacrament, blessing of children, baptism of eight-year-old members of record, confirmation, and ordination to Aaronic Priesthood offices.
The bishop usually initiates recommendations to the stake presidency for brethren to be ordained elders or high priests (see page 31). These ordinations are performed under the direction of the stake president.
Instructions for performing ordinances and blessings are outlined on pages 23-35.
Oversee Ward Auxiliaries and Programs
The bishopric oversees the ward auxiliary organizations:
Relief Society (see page 196 in Book 2)
Young Men (see pages 180-81 in Book 2)
Young Women (see pages 216-17 in Book 2)
Primary (see pages 230-31 in Book 2)
Sun
no siinä löytyy tarpeeksi tekstiä jotta ihmiset voi etsiä sen netistä itse, sinäkin zappax ellei sulla ole sitä itselläsi.
Sanoisit vaan sen sivun ja otsakkeen minkä olla nyt sitten *ilmeisesti*(?) kielletään antamasta kopiota kastetulle henkilölle väliaikaisesta kastetodistuksesta...
En viitsisi koko kirjaa lukea läpi vaan sen takia kun panttaa tuota tietoa.
Itse täytin maistraatissa lomakkeen ja kirjoitin kirjeen srk:n johtajalle tai sitten jos teillä on piispa...Meneepä tieto varmasti perille eikä kenellekään jää mitään epäselvää...
Varaudu ettei se ole helppoa henkisellä ja hengellisellä tasolla.
Olisi hyvä jos olisi joku ystävä kenen kanssa keskustella fiiliksistä.
Itselläni sellainen on josta olenkin kiitollinen!
JOs haluat vaihtaa ajatuksia meilaa vaikka [email protected]
Äläkä menetä uskoasi kirkon takia, lue ja tutki Jumalan tahtoa =)
Siunausta Sinulle!
ilmoittamalla siitä seurakunnan piispalle.
Hän pyytää sinua lähettämään erokirjeen , josta sitten asia lähtee purkautumaan ilman minkäänlaista
epäsopua tms.
Ei se niin mustavalkoista ole että kirje menemään ja sillä sipuli.
Mormonikirkko pitää siis ainaisesti itsellään eronneidenkin tiedot.
Jotkut tykkää siitä kyttyrää.
Mielestäni tämä väite ei pidä paikkansa. Jos eroaa kirkosta se tapahtuu juuri niin yksinkertaisesti, kuin edellä on osoitettu. Ehkä nämä tiedot, jotka jäävät kirkolle ovat sen kaltaisia, että tämä henkilö on joskus ollut kirkon jäsen, ei että hän on edelleen jäsen. Itse en kyllä ole kuullut tälläisesta tiedosta joka jää kirkolle. Jos sellainen tieto on olemassa niin sitä ei ainakaan ole seurakunnilla ja heidän käytettävissään ja jos ei ole niin mitä ihmeen merkitystä sillä on. Jos haluaa erota se onnistuu ja ei ole vaikeaa.
Vai onko väittämäsi, että he pysyvät edelleen kirkon jäseninä vaikka ovat hakeneet eroa?
anteeksi, en lukenut tarkasti sinun tekstiäsi. Eli siis ne eronneiden tiedot jäävät mielestäsi kirkolle... no eivät ne ainakaan seurakuntatasolla ole ja haluaisin saada jotain faktaa, että ne olisivat jossain muualla?
sisäpiirissä, ehkä (ollut) kirkon kirjureita?
Toi kuullosti TODELLA HYVÄLTÄ kuulla... Olen "sisäpiiriläinen" :-)
Ollut monessa kirkon tehtävässä ja tehnyt toita jäsenreksiteri/tilasto-osastolla,...
Eli jotakin tiedän jotakin en...
Tännehän oli tullut ihanan paljon vastauksia. Kiitän kauneimmin kaikista neuvoista. Taidan käydä hoitamassa asian maistraatissa, hieman vaivaa että piispa on kuitenkin ihan tuttu ihminen niin mieluummin hoitaa sen muulla tavalla.
ilman muuta hoitaa asia piispan kanssa. Jos tuttu ja luotettava on, ehtii vielä käännyttää sinut takaisin.
Oli todella huono neuvo.