Poistetut keskustelut

Laitan tähän pätkiä tämän kevään viesteistäni, joita olin kirjoittanut kansainväliselle sahaja yoga forumeille. Nämä on niitä viestejä jotka moderoijat poistivat. Osa niistä; siinä oli pari romanialaista ja muun maan sahaja yogia mun rinnalla; jotka seisoi urhoollisesti tukena loppuun asti.

Aina siihen saakka kun sensurin "kirves heilahti" Ja sahaja moderaattorit julistivat ultimaatumin että SAHAJA YOGA ON DEMOKRATIA; MUTTA DEMOKRATIAAN EI KUULU SANANVAPAUS. Tuli selväksi että ei todellakaan kuulu.

Mutta tässä valittuja katkelmia... Siinä ei näy vastapuolen kirjoituksia; koko tarina on kyllä löydettävissä netissä anti-sy sivustoilta, ei minun julkaisemanani. Tässä enemmän omia näkemyksiäni; niitä jotka raivostuttivat sahaja moderaattorit perinjuurin. Ensimmäinen alkukommentti on yhden s.jooginin; joka on ystäväni...

Myöhemmin muutama s.yogi otti yhteyttä, ja sanoi että Blake ja Sokrates olivat niin paljon alemmalla tasolla kuin nykyajan s.joogit että heidän sanomisistaan ja elämistään ei pidä välittää. Siis... Adi Gurujen sanoista ei pidä välittää enää. (!)

The Diary of Ishmael
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 2:27 am
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Dear Friends,
This is a magnificent work describing cosmic experiences knowing no bounds.
The writing of personal Kundalini experiences such as I have read here is to be shared with everyone, it is simply to be related and enjoyed. A work of this power and magnitude must not be kept hidden, judged or allowed to be misinterpreted by the confines and constrictions of the mind.
My heart is truly bursting with Love, Joy and the Wonder of it all.
Love,-----
_________________
"No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of your knowledge."
Kahlil Gibran

Honesty.
Posted: Thu Apr 21, 2005 4:26 am
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Yes,

I think ----- is right there; it's also my humble opinion; all sahaja yogies should read the Diary of Ishmael. Just read it, so you know what's it about. Blind disbelief is just a stupidest thing... believing in rumors, forming prejudices, being frightened so stiff that you can't speak. Why all this?

--- is such an innocent yogini... Just being honest and innocent there. It's a wonderful day; it's wonderful we have such yoginis.

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PS. About "sexual encounters"; please let's stop this immature hystery about sexuality. It's a natural thing, created by God. Many seekers and saints have written about sexuality; and I was expecting we could discuss about these matters in the light of sacred teachings, - on the other hand I have thought it's too public place. If someone there feels confused, I urge to go to library or bookshop; and take Peter Ackroyd's wonderful study about Blake, or any throughout biography of Kahlil Gibran; or Carl Jung, and everything will be just clear. I mean; we are mature persons. Still, I think that this is too open forum to bring forth such subjects. So lets just be modest.. Modesty is beautiful.

Some Gibran&Blake Quotes.
Posted: Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:38 am
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"I will tell you a thing that you may not know. The most highly sexed beings upon the planet are the creators: the poets, sculptors, painters, musicians - and so it has been from the beginning. And among them sex is always beautiful, and it is always shy."
- Kahlil Gibran

"Forget not that modesty is for a shield against the eye of the unclean. And when the unclean shall be no more, what were modesty but a fetter and a fouling of the mind?"
- Kahlil Gibran, The Prophet

Dear yogis, Good morning,

I was trying to find my Gibran books, but couldn't find; it's still such mess here, because I'm moving to this new apartment. First I flipped through Blake, then did some Gibran browsing in net. I think it's very clear; there is no need to get upset. Just, you need time to really understand Blake; you need to enter his world, really.. and I was thinking this; to be able to fully understand Blake, you must - in a way - become one with him.

I have here one of his texts; The Everlasting Gospel, written by Blake, from year 1810. It's set highly ironical tone, and Blake says about Jesus: "I am sure this Jesus will not do, Either for Englishman or Jew." From this I gather, it's about real Christ, as seen by an Artist. Blake is not speaking about the Jesus of average believer, or about the Jesus of "every Tom, Dick and Harry".

There:

"Was Jesus chaste? or did He
Give any lessons of chastity?
The Morning blushed fiery red:
Mary was found in adulterous bed;
Earth groan'd beneath, and heaven above
Trembled at discovery of Love.
----"( -The Everlasting Gospel, Blake)

I think, if any sahaja yogi will read Blake; with thought ( and not just boast that oh, I've read all Blake and Gibran already, they are such great and realized and pure authors...) .. if you watch Blake's lines, I feel there is no doubt, no confusion; it's very clearly there, what he means. And what he means, is shocking to the point of disbelief!!

It was such an enigma for me, that Shri Mataji was never speaking about these things. Yet everytime I listened to Her in tapes, She was always pointing way to Blake and Gibran.

I undersatnd now, that She is a Mother; and Mothers do not talk about these things. She was just subtly pointing the way. Just listen, how he is doing that; so consistently.

I was just thinking; that how could we judge other sahaja yogies, without the awareness, of what is it to be a divine personality. How does such personality look like? It's this one key, Mother gave us; Blake and Gibran; it's there for all to read. I might add Michelangelo to that; and say that these archangels were pretty wild men.

What spirit is so empty and blind, that it cannot recognize the fact that the foot is more noble than the shoe, and skin more beautiful that the garment with which it is clothed?
Michelangelo

More Gibran quotes:

Tenderness and kindness are not signs of weakness and despair, but manifestations of strength and resolution.

Truth is the daughter of Inspiration; analysis and debate keep the people away from Truth.

Poetry is the understanding of the whole, how can you communicate it to him who understands but the part ?

The means of reviving a language lie in the heart of the poet and upon his lips and between his fingers. The poet is the mediator between the creative power and the people. He is the wire that transmits the news of the world of spirit to the world of research. The poet is the father and mother of the language, which goes wherever he goes. When he dies, it remains prostrate over his grave, weeping and forlorn, until another poet comes to uplift it.
_________________
"Guide my timorous hand, to write as on a lofty rock with iron pens the words of truth, that all who pass may read." (William Blake: Samson - a prose sketch, 1778)


About Socrates:

- What does Xenophon has to say to us?

I promised to say something about Socrates, - something I see with the poets eye, maybe dilettante eye. I am not a university professor, nor a Socrates scholar, so i quote here someone wiser: “... I argue in the article that Xenophon ought to be taken more seriously as a source for Socrates, rather than being written off as a man too shallow to understand him. This is important because all agree that much of what Socrates says in Plato's brilliant Socratic dialogues isn't true to what the historical Socrates believed, but rather represents Plato's own later philosophy. If Xenophon can help fill in the gaps in Plato, or show us what in Plato is Plato and what Socrates, we will be able to gain a much fuller picture of Socrates, who is in so many ways the founding figure of the western philosophical tradition. “(David Johnson, Assistant Professor, Classics Section: [link])

Wonder, what's about this? It's the Socretes relations with the hetairas that's caught my attention. Sure he also loved boys, and it might be interesting topic too, but I have no such tendency so I just skip it. In many ways Socrates was similar to Michelangelo. He was a passionate man, I guess; I am not sure, but somehow I think it comes close to what Jung wrote about Philomon and Salome in his autobiography. Sure, it has to do with rococo-atmosphere's which I've been fond of since childhood; the lush greenery of the park, and marble-like feminine beauty there.. approaching thunderstorm, smell of moist grass in the air; the Greek influence in European culture. Hamann, of the romantics.

This is so very old Greek and 18th century basic stuff, I wonder why it sounds so radical? Why are we people like monks and nuns in chastity belts, and why i so often feel my fellow human beings being but accusers inquisitors. Sure, life can be more beautiful than that. Also vibrationwise; there could be more, and yet more intense. But as said I am tired in dialogue; I rather just express myself, and what She has to say, whether the world likes it or not. Theodite was a hetaira, the same profession as Mary Magdalene is said to have. Strange coincidences. There was one biblical prophet, was it Amos? Whom did he marry?
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Socrates and Theodote

"Why, in the course of defending Socrates, does Xenophon show him in conversation with the hetaira Theodote? Commentators ancient (Athenaeus 5.220ff.) and modern (Delatte, commentary on Memorabilia 3) have been troubled for Socrates’ morals. But Xenophon, a man of the world, meant the passage to be humorous (Breitenbach, RE) in a way more characteristic of his Symposium (see Huss, Symposium commentary and in AJP 1999). Is it anything more than that? The most telling part of the joke is that Theodote is in many ways comparable to Socrates, as both of them are in the same business: seduction (cf. Strauss, Xenophon’s Socrates, 85ff.). Of course Socrates’ seductions are intellectual, while Theodote’s have a healthy corporeal element. But I will suggest that the comparison with Theodote teaches us at least one thing we might not otherwise know: Socrates, like Theodote, makes sparing use of his charms in order to increase his companions’ desire for what he has to offer.

Neither Plato nor Xenophon ever explicitly compares Socrates to an hetaira, but both make free use of erotic language to describe Socrates, and speak in positive terms of the most famous hetaira of them all, Aspasia (Plato, Menexenus; Xenophon, Mem. 2.6.36, Oec. 3.14; cf. the Aspasia of Aeschines, with Ehlers 1966, 107ff.). Plato’s Socrates several times claims that his specialty is ta erotika (Symposium 177d; cf. Lysis 211e, Theages 123b). Xenophon’s Socrates is also erotic (Mem. 2.6.28, 4.1.2ff.), and in Xenophon’s Symposium he prides himself on his procuring or pimping (mastropeia:4.56ff.), and is said to ply the art not only for others but also on his own behalf (8.5).

In our passage Socrates charmingly strips Theodote of the various conceits that maintain her status as an hetaira rather than a porne, a common prostitute (cf. Davidson, Courtesans & Fishcakes, 120ff.). By the end of our passage it is not Socrates who wants to visit Theodote but Theodote who wants to visit Socrates: as Socrates elsewhere begins as the lover but becomes the beloved, so here he starts as the would-be customer but ends up as the hetaira, with his own suite of philai, his companions, whom he attracts with various love charms. Unlike Theodote, however, Socrates teaches his friends how to attract friends of their own: this is one important respect in which he is her superior.

Theodote consorts with those who persuade her to do so, and not, as a common prostitute, with anyone who can pay her price. Rather similarly Socrates, unlike the mercenary sophists, picks and chooses his companions (Mem 1.6.3). Theodote lives in high style but without traditional means of support: she relies on her philoi. Socrates, of course, prides himself on his poverty, but he too lacks any observable means of support, and can count upon the generosity of his friends (Oec. 2.8; Plato, Apology 38b).

Much of Socrates’ advice to Theodote closely parallels the advice he gave about winning friends to Critobulus earlier in the Memorabilia (2.6). But certain elements are most closely paralleled by Socrates’ own practice. Theodote should act differently in different cases: those who are full of themselves she should lock out, but those who truly care for her she should favor with all her soul. Above all, she must be careful to allow her friends to fulfill their desire for her only when their desires are at a peak. Socrates too went after different sorts of would-be companions through different means (Mem. 4.1.3-4.2.1), depending upon whether they prided themselves on their natures, wealth, or learning. His students needed to be good learners, but also to possess a great desire for learning (Mem. 4.1.2; Morrison 1994). In Memorabilia 4.2, Xenophon shows us Socrates’ intellectual seduction of Euthydemus; only after first teasing, enticing, and humiliating Euthydemus does Socrates reveal himself to him. He thus first ensures that Euthydemus has a deep and lasting desire for what he has to teach before he gives him the goods. Xenophon clearly enough shows that many questioned Socrates’ willingness to reveal himself by saying that Socrates did not hide what he thought (Mem. 4..4.1 cf. 4.2.40; 4.7.1; Plato, Symposium 215bff.).

When Socrates and his companions arrived, Theodote was revealing only as much as is fine to the painter doing her portrait. Does Xenophon do the same in his portrait of Socrates? The subtlety of his portrayal of Socrates’ encounter with Theodote ought to suggest to us that his Socrates may have hidden depths Xenophon thought it improper to call our attention to in an apologetic work. Thus Xenophon’s Socrates, who is so often thought to be the essence of banality, may have more to him than meets the eye. One such depth is Socrates’ hiddenness itself, which Xenophon does reveal, but only under the veil of Theodote. "

Morrison, Donald. 1994. “Xenophon’s Socrates as a Teacher.” 181-208 in The Socratic Movement, Paul A. Vander Waerdt, ed. Ithaca.

Ehlers, Barbara. 1966. Eine vorplatonische Deutung des Sokratischen Eros: Der Dialog Aspasia des Sokratikers Aischines. Zetemata 41. Munich.
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Saturday 05.07.05 [3:37 pm]
Here is a book written by Xenophon (444 - 357 BCE) about Socrates: Memorabilia or Recollections of Socrates. Etext of The Memorabilia by Xenophon
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Sunday 05.01.05 [4:59 pm]
Blake's Message - Unhampered.

Today morning I read Blake, - and if you can't believe - here's Ackroyd's book on my bed[photo]; I just took a photo with my digital camera. It's quite clear; for example if you take Blake's meetings with a christian believer John Linnell; he was Blake's friend, "rather puritanical and single-minded Babtist". Blake was saying there things like: "What are called vices in the natural world, are the highest subliminities in the spiritual world." And Linnell: ".. and then he went off on a rambling state of a Union of Sexes in Man as in God - an androgynous state in which I could not follow him."

Page 296: " This was the context in which he placed his eroticism, because for him it represented an approach towards eternity and the reawakening of the Divine Man who is within us. The image of the hermaphrodite, with penis and vagina, is an ancient one - for Blake it represents in literal form that time before the sexes were divided and human faculties thereby distorted or degraded..."
Well. These are not isolated instances; but frequent; representing the very essence of Blake's message. In some mysterious way spirituality and sexuality are connected. It's there for all to read. What is there reason to quarrell about, or become agitated, degrade, accuse or carry grudges against other yogis? It's wrong. All should by this book, or get it from library: Peter Ackroyd, BLAKE, 1995, London, ISBN 0-7493-9176-6.