Ateismin mannekiini Christopher Hitchensin ("God Is Not Great: The Case Against Religion") kunniaksi oli järjestetty keskustelutilaisuus. Hitchens kättäytyi tyypilliseen tapaansa häiriintyneesti ja aggressiivisesti. Dialogista uskonnon ja ateismin välillä ei taida tulla mitään tässäkään tapauksessa. Kuilu on liian syvä:
Billed as, “An Evening with Christopher Hitchens“, the event was presented by the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and featured a discussion between Hitchens and Peter Collier (who is Director of Publications for the Freedom Center). During that discussion, Hitchens offered many insults — laced with a generous helping of obscene, Anglo-Saxon expletives — to such beloved religious figures as the late Mother Teresa. One eyewitness states that Hitchens’ “drunken, rambling, anti-Semitic, bigoted and foul-mouthed rant” caused “two-thirds of the people to leave in disgust” before the talk had ended.
The reference to anti-Semitism relates to a brief exchange between Hitchens and Collier on the topic of circumcision, which went as follows:
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: What if I say, Everyone in the country knows that female genital mutilation is a horror show? And it should rightly be a federal crime. But male genital mutilation is a filthy Jewish practice. Doesn’t sound good, does it, to say that? You know how sensitive we can be. But what else?
And that happens to be my view. And I am damned if I’ll become an American in order to be told I can’t express it. Okay?
PETER COLLIER: It is true, of course, that genitally mutilated males have a six times lower frequency of getting AIDS in Africa, for instance, right?
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Well, there would be less AIDS if the Islamic and Catholic authorities didn’t say that AIDS may be bad but condoms are worse, which is the religious preachment. And by the way — I suppose we may as well get this out of the way — the jolly old foreskin –
PETER COLLIER: The foreskin.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: — the foreskin itself –
PETER COLLIER: Oh, let’s get right to it. Okay.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: When in doubt — as they always say — when in doubt, talk dick. The foreskin can be loosened. The foreskin can be loosened, and even slightly snipped — in order, for cleaning purposes. But it doesn’t have to be violently torn and excised, in the Maimonides recommendation, which is, by the way — when Maimonides mandates it, he says, not to prevent you from getting a filthy disease; it’s so that you will feel the least sexual pleasure that’s consistent with making another Jew, through a hole in the sheet. Okay? (“An Evening with Christopher Hitchens.”)
During the question-and-answer period following Hitchens’ talk, Father George Rutler took the floor and the following exchange ensued:
FATHER RUTLER: I have met saints. You cannot explain the existence of saints without God. I was nine years chaplain with Mother Teresa [inaudible]. You have called her a whore, a demagogue. She’s in heaven that you don’t believe in, but she’s praying for you. If you do not believe in heaven, that’s why you drink.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Excuse me?
FATHER RUTLER: That’s why you drink. God has offered us happiness, all of us. And you will either die a Catholic or a madman, and I’ll tell you the difference.
And secondly, I’m an officer with this club. And this conversation has been beneath the dignity of this club.
UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: No it hasn’t been.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Well, it is now.
DAVID HOROWITZ: Okay. I–
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: It is now.
FATHER RUTLER: And I’d just say that…
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Fine host you turned out to be.
FATHER RUTLER: …this club, we’ve had very open discussion. But we’ve never heard such vulgarity and bigotry.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Till now.
FATHER RUTLER: And I am, I don’t want to see this in this club again. And I think I represent the officers of this noble…
DAVID HOROWITZ: All right.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Your claim to know what a [saint] is or what heaven is is as absurd as your [inaudible] arrogance, your unkindness and your lack of hospitality.
DAVID HOROWITZ: See? Everybody –
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: You should be ashamed.
FATHER RUTLER: [inaudible]
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: And you are supposed to represent a church of charity and kindness?
DAVID HOROWITZ: I said this evening was going to be interesting and unpredictable.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS Especially [inaudible].
DAVID HOROWITZ: And anyway, thank you all for coming. And to all a good night. (”An Evening with Christopher Hitchens”)
It was after the above exchange that the real fireworks started, according to witnesses. This blog has obtained a written account of the incident by one eyewitness, which states the following:
“At the end of the event as he staggered, sweating and red faced, out of the room, he [Hitchens] advanced on Father Rutler in a threatening and physical manner, screaming that this beloved pastor and brilliant scholar whom he had never met was ‘a child molester and a lazy layabout who never did a day’s work in his life’. His behavior was so frightening that a bodyguard put himself between Hitchens and Father Rutler to protect him. Several of the event organizers then escorted Hitchens to the men’s room and when he emerged he continued his psychotic rant, repeating the same calumnious and baseless screed as before. It was then that Father Rutler, in the most charitable manner, told Hitchens [for the second time] that he will `either die a madman or a Roman Catholic’. … Unless he faces his alcoholism soon, I am betting on the ‘madman’ ending for him.” (Private communication, name of source withheld by request, 17 September 2007)
Evidently, Mr. Hitchens never met Father Rutler before their May 1 encounter, and did not know who he was. It happens that Father Rutler is a hero of 9-11. He holds a special place in the hearts of New York City’s police and firemen, for he was with them that day at Ground Zero. Before Father Mychal Judge was struck dead by a body falling from the burning towers, Father Rutler stood side-by-side with Father Judge, hearing confessions and giving the last rites to firemen en route to their deaths.
I hope and pray that Mr. Hitchens will seek the help he needs in his struggle with alcohol. And I hope that someday soon, when his mind has cleared, Mr. Hitchens will see the need to pay a visit to Father Rutler and deliver to him face to face the apology this good and saintly man so plainly deserves.
http://www.takimag.com/site/article/hitchens_unhinged_part_i/
Billed as, “An Evening with Christopher Hitchens“, the event was presented by the David Horowitz Freedom Center, and featured a discussion between Hitchens and Peter Collier (who is Director of Publications for the Freedom Center). During that discussion, Hitchens offered many insults — laced with a generous helping of obscene, Anglo-Saxon expletives — to such beloved religious figures as the late Mother Teresa. One eyewitness states that Hitchens’ “drunken, rambling, anti-Semitic, bigoted and foul-mouthed rant” caused “two-thirds of the people to leave in disgust” before the talk had ended.
The reference to anti-Semitism relates to a brief exchange between Hitchens and Collier on the topic of circumcision, which went as follows:
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: What if I say, Everyone in the country knows that female genital mutilation is a horror show? And it should rightly be a federal crime. But male genital mutilation is a filthy Jewish practice. Doesn’t sound good, does it, to say that? You know how sensitive we can be. But what else?
And that happens to be my view. And I am damned if I’ll become an American in order to be told I can’t express it. Okay?
PETER COLLIER: It is true, of course, that genitally mutilated males have a six times lower frequency of getting AIDS in Africa, for instance, right?
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Well, there would be less AIDS if the Islamic and Catholic authorities didn’t say that AIDS may be bad but condoms are worse, which is the religious preachment. And by the way — I suppose we may as well get this out of the way — the jolly old foreskin –
PETER COLLIER: The foreskin.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: — the foreskin itself –
PETER COLLIER: Oh, let’s get right to it. Okay.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: When in doubt — as they always say — when in doubt, talk dick. The foreskin can be loosened. The foreskin can be loosened, and even slightly snipped — in order, for cleaning purposes. But it doesn’t have to be violently torn and excised, in the Maimonides recommendation, which is, by the way — when Maimonides mandates it, he says, not to prevent you from getting a filthy disease; it’s so that you will feel the least sexual pleasure that’s consistent with making another Jew, through a hole in the sheet. Okay? (“An Evening with Christopher Hitchens.”)
During the question-and-answer period following Hitchens’ talk, Father George Rutler took the floor and the following exchange ensued:
FATHER RUTLER: I have met saints. You cannot explain the existence of saints without God. I was nine years chaplain with Mother Teresa [inaudible]. You have called her a whore, a demagogue. She’s in heaven that you don’t believe in, but she’s praying for you. If you do not believe in heaven, that’s why you drink.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Excuse me?
FATHER RUTLER: That’s why you drink. God has offered us happiness, all of us. And you will either die a Catholic or a madman, and I’ll tell you the difference.
And secondly, I’m an officer with this club. And this conversation has been beneath the dignity of this club.
UNIDENTIFIED AUDIENCE MEMBER: No it hasn’t been.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Well, it is now.
DAVID HOROWITZ: Okay. I–
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: It is now.
FATHER RUTLER: And I’d just say that…
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Fine host you turned out to be.
FATHER RUTLER: …this club, we’ve had very open discussion. But we’ve never heard such vulgarity and bigotry.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Till now.
FATHER RUTLER: And I am, I don’t want to see this in this club again. And I think I represent the officers of this noble…
DAVID HOROWITZ: All right.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Your claim to know what a [saint] is or what heaven is is as absurd as your [inaudible] arrogance, your unkindness and your lack of hospitality.
DAVID HOROWITZ: See? Everybody –
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: You should be ashamed.
FATHER RUTLER: [inaudible]
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: And you are supposed to represent a church of charity and kindness?
DAVID HOROWITZ: I said this evening was going to be interesting and unpredictable.
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS Especially [inaudible].
DAVID HOROWITZ: And anyway, thank you all for coming. And to all a good night. (”An Evening with Christopher Hitchens”)
It was after the above exchange that the real fireworks started, according to witnesses. This blog has obtained a written account of the incident by one eyewitness, which states the following:
“At the end of the event as he staggered, sweating and red faced, out of the room, he [Hitchens] advanced on Father Rutler in a threatening and physical manner, screaming that this beloved pastor and brilliant scholar whom he had never met was ‘a child molester and a lazy layabout who never did a day’s work in his life’. His behavior was so frightening that a bodyguard put himself between Hitchens and Father Rutler to protect him. Several of the event organizers then escorted Hitchens to the men’s room and when he emerged he continued his psychotic rant, repeating the same calumnious and baseless screed as before. It was then that Father Rutler, in the most charitable manner, told Hitchens [for the second time] that he will `either die a madman or a Roman Catholic’. … Unless he faces his alcoholism soon, I am betting on the ‘madman’ ending for him.” (Private communication, name of source withheld by request, 17 September 2007)
Evidently, Mr. Hitchens never met Father Rutler before their May 1 encounter, and did not know who he was. It happens that Father Rutler is a hero of 9-11. He holds a special place in the hearts of New York City’s police and firemen, for he was with them that day at Ground Zero. Before Father Mychal Judge was struck dead by a body falling from the burning towers, Father Rutler stood side-by-side with Father Judge, hearing confessions and giving the last rites to firemen en route to their deaths.
I hope and pray that Mr. Hitchens will seek the help he needs in his struggle with alcohol. And I hope that someday soon, when his mind has cleared, Mr. Hitchens will see the need to pay a visit to Father Rutler and deliver to him face to face the apology this good and saintly man so plainly deserves.
http://www.takimag.com/site/article/hitchens_unhinged_part_i/
Vastaukset 6
Vanhimmat
Hitchensiltä taas normaalia puhetta, mutta se mikä pistää hymyilyttämään on että "nimetön silminnäkijä" on taas nähnyt ja kuullut jotain mitä tapahtui keskustelun jälkeen.
Toinen juttu mikä hymyilytti oli se että siitä papista oli tehty jonkinlainen sankari terrori-iskujen takia ja tästä syystä hänelle ei ilmeisesti saisi antaa minkäänlaista kriittistä palautetta.
eikös se tällä tullut todistettua?
Ainakin se tuli todistettua että raamattu on totta. Koska Hitchens alkaa h:lla niin tästä voidaan vetää looginen johtopäätös että Mooses oli oikeassa.
Miesten ympärileikkauksen typerä traditio sai alkunsa seksuaalikielteisyydestä,joka on yleistä monissa uskonnoissa.Sama pätee tietysti myös naisten ympärileikkaukseen,joka on haitta-asteeltaan oma lukunsa.Miesten kohdalla tarkoituksena oli vaikeuttaa masturbointia.Ylivoimaisesti suurin osa miesten ympärileikkauksista tehdään muista kuin lääketieteellisistä syistä,ja mitä hygieniaan tulee niin kannatta pestä se pippeli päivittäin ihan sieltä esinahkan altakin niin kyllä se puhtaana pysyy.En suoralta kädeltä usko tuohon väitteeseen,että leikkamattomat aiheuttaisivat kuusinkertaisen tartuntariskin.
Näin muuten joskus tv:ssä ohjelman,jossa joku mies oli niin pahoillaan siitä,että hänet ilo ympärileikattu,että hän oli itse kehittänyt jonkinlaisen punnussysteemin,jolla hän yritti venyttää esinahkansa takaisin normaaliksi,ja kuulemma siinä kohtuullisesti onnistuenkin!
Naisten leikkauksen tarkoitus on taas estää naista nauttimasta seksuaalisesti,jotta ei olisi kiusausta pettää miestänsä.
Se,että jokin asia on perinne ts. sitä on tehty vuosisatojen ajan,ei todista,että siinä olisi mitään järkeä.MAAILMA ON TÄYNNÄ TYPERIÄ TRADITIOITA,tosin myös upeita traditioita!
"Miesten kohdalla tarkoituksena oli vaikeuttaa masturbointia." Aivan, Amerikassa, mutta ei juutalaisilla siis..
"En suoralta kädeltä usko tuohon väitteeseen,että leikkamattomat aiheuttaisivat kuusinkertaisen tartuntariskin. "
En minäkään, eikö siitä ollut melko olematon tai kumottu näyttö. Ja kuten Hitchens sanoo-voisi vain käyttää kumia. Se ohjelma minkä katoit oli Penn&Teller ;)
En jaksanut lukea kuin osan, mutta minusta tuo ympärileikkaus-puhe ei ainakaan ollut juutalaisvastainen..pelkkää poleemista kritiikkiä, ei siinä solvata itse juutalaisia vaan heidän tapaansa ja verrataan sitä naisten silpomiseen.. Ja mitä sitten vaikka hän "loukkasi rakastettuja uskonnollisia hahmoja kuten Äiti Teresaa", haloo, tyyppi on kirjoittanut kokonaisen kirjan jossa kritisoi häntä-luulisi yleisön tulevan kuuntelemaan juuri sitä mistä hänet tunnetaan. Minusta se ei ole loukkaamista jos kerrotaan totuus Äiti Teresasta ja hänen puuhistaan.. Hän ei sitä paitsi ole ainoa joka arvostelee Äippä Teresaa.
Eikä Hitchens edes tietääkseni ole mikään suuri mannekiini ateismille..Minulle hän edustaa historiallisten henkiöiden kirjeiden ja sellaisten tutkijaa (Äiti Teresa, Jefferson..)
Minusta toi "isä" on aika törkee sitä paitsi!:
FATHER RUTLER: I have met saints. You cannot explain the existence of saints without God. I was nine years chaplain with Mother Teresa [inaudible]. You have called her a whore, a demagogue. She’s in heaven that you don’t believe in, but she’s praying for you. ____If you do not believe in heaven, that’s why you drink. ___
CHRISTOPHER HITCHENS: Excuse me?
FATHER RUTLER: That’s why you drink. God has offered us happiness, all of us. ___And you will either die a Catholic or a madman, and I’ll tell you the difference. ___
Huh huh O_O Wikipediassa näkyy olevan, että hän sanoo juovansa koska muuten tylsistyy ja se avittaa hänen kirjoittamistaan.. On aika surkeeta jos täytyy alkaa kirtisoimaan jonkun henkilöä, kun ei voi kumota hänen väitteitään..