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Mormonit ja JeesusKirjoittanut: häirikkömormonit 22.2.2008 klo 12.58

      Mormonit pilkkaavat Jeesusta aivan avoimesti. He opettavat että Jeesuksella oli monta vaimoa. Erääksi Jeesuksen vaimoksi he väittävät Maria Magdaleenaa. Orson Hyde väitti että Kaanaan häissä Jeesus meni naimisiin Marian ja Martan kanssa. He kieltävät Jeesuksen yliluonnollisen sikiämisen Pyhästä Hengestä ja väittävät että Jeesuksen isä oli Aadam. Brigham Young opetti että pelastus riippuisi uskosta Mormonin kirjaan, sekin on hyvin mieletön Jumalan sanan vastainen opetus. Todella omituista opetusta ja epäraamatullista.
   

      Mormonit ja JeesusKirjoittanut: Nimetön 22.2.2008 klo 13.12

      Itse olen Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkon jäsen jo vuodesta 1971 alkaen. Koko jäsenyyteni aikana en ole kuullut moista soopaa. Onkohan väittäjä itse keksinyt koko kummallisen jutun? Mistä Pyhistä kirjoituksista olet moisen ajatuksen löytänyt? Taitaa olla sairas oman mielikuvituksen tuote. En kylläkään halua loukata sinua, mutten hyväksy tollaista, ennenkuin sanot, mistä pyhistä kirjoituksista löytyy tällainen väittämä.
   

      OmituistaKirjoittanut: todella 22.2.2008 klo 16.32

      koska en monen kymmene vuoden jäsenyyteni aikana ole koskaan kuullut kirkon opettavan moista!
   

      No huh huhKirjoittanut: yksi kirkon jäsen 22.2.2008 klo 17.55

      Olen ollut 22 vuotta Jeesuksen Kristuksen kirkon jäsen ja minäkään en ole kuullut kirkossa tuollaisia opetettavan. Kannattaa tarkistaa asiat ennenkuin niistä kirkoittaa esim tänne palstalle.
   

      Aikamoista puppua väitätKirjoittanut: Fii finlanda 22.2.2008 klo 20.27

      43 vuoteen en ole nähnyt tommoista opetettavan? Mikä on motiivi ihmisellä joka väittää moista puppua? Olis kiva nähdä alkuperäis teksti väittämistäsi? Pystyn lukemaan nyös englanniksi ja yhdellä seemiläiselläkin kielellä. Antaapa tulla vaan!!!!!!!!!!
   

      Ei pidäKirjoittanut: Unski 22.2.2008 klo 22.48

      väittämäsi paikkaansa. Tarkistappa ensin asiat ja puhu vasta sitten. Minä en ole missään vaiheessa kuullut moista oppia 52:n vuoden jäsenyyteni aikana.
   

      Ensimmäinen väiteKirjoittanut: on OIKEIN 23.2.2008 klo 07.11

      puhe Jeesuksen häistä ja moniavioisuudesta löytyy täältä: http://www.journalofdiscourses.org/ VOLUME 1:stä, puheesta: UNIFORMITY, pitäjä: Jedediah M. Grant: http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_01/refJDvol1-52.html Toista väitettä Aadamin isyydestä en tunnista oikeaksi. Mormonin kirjasta on hyvinkin on sanottu noin.
   

      Lisäys:Kirjoittanut: tässä toinen puhe: 23.2.2008 klo 07.36

      nimenomainen Orson Hyden puhe, josta aloittaja mainitsi: http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_02/refJDvol2-19.html ja sieltä lainaus häistä kertovasta osasta: "We will turn over to the account of the marriage in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there. Yes, and somebody else too. You will find it in the 2nd chapter of John's Gospel; remember it and read it when you go home. "And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: and both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage. And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. And there were set there six water pots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. Jesus saith unto them, Fill the water pots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, and said unto him"-that is, the ruler of the feast saith unto the bridegroom, "Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now." Gentlemen that is as plain as the translators, or different councils over this Scripture, dare allow it to go to the world, but the thing is there; it is told; Jesus was the bridegroom at the marriage of Cana of Galilee, and he told them what to do. Now there was actually a marriage; and if Jesus was not the bridegroom on that occasion, please tell who was. If any man can show this, and prove that it was not the Savior of the world, then I will acknowledge I am in error. We say it was Jesus Christ who was married, to be brought into the relation whereby he could see his seed, before he was crucified. "Has he indeed passed by the nature of angels, and taken upon himself the seed of Abraham, to die without leaving a seed to bear his name on the earth?" No. But when the secret is fully out, the seed of the blessed shall be gathered in, in the last days; and he who has not the blood of Abraham flowing in his veins, who has not one particle of the Savior's in him, I am afraid is a stereotyped Gentile, who will be left out and not be gathered in the last days; for I tell you it is the chosen of God, the seed of the blessed, that shall be gathered. I do not despise to be called a son of Abraham, if he had a dozen wives; or to be called a brother, a son, a child of the Savior, if he had Mary, and Martha, and several others, as wives; and though he did cast seven devils out of one of them, it is all the same to me. Well, then, he shall see his seed, and who shall declare his generation, for he was cut off from the earth? I shall say here, that before the Savior died, he looked upon his own natural children, as we look upon ours; he saw his seed, and immediately afterwards he was cut off from the earth; but who shall declare his generation? They had no father to hold them in honorable remembrance; they passed into the shades of obscurity, never to be exposed to mortal eye as the seed of the blessed one. For no doubt had they been exposed to the eye of the world, those infants might have shared the same fate as the children in Jerusalem in the days of Herod, when all the children were ordered to be slain under such, an age, with the hopes of slaying the infant Savior. They might have suffered by the hand of the assassin, as the sons of many kings have done who were heirs apparent to the thrones of their fathers. History is replete with circumstances of neck-or-nothing politicians dyeing their hands in the blood of those who stood in their way to the throne or to power. That seed has had its influence upon the chosen of God in the last days. The same spirit inspires them that inspires their father, who bled and died upon the cross after the manner of the flesh. "Well, but," says one, "there was certainly an injunction laid upon the Bishops in New Testament times, that they should have but one wife. This is brought up as a great argument against the position the Latter-day Saints have taken. In olden times they might have passed through the same circumstances as some of the Latter-day Saints had to in Illinois. What would it have done for us, if they had known that many of us had more than one wife when we lived in Illinois? They would have broken us up, doubtless, worse than they did. They may break us up, and rout us from one place to another, but by and bye we shall come to a point where we shall have all the women, and they will have none. You may think I am joking about this, but I can bring you the truth of God to demonstrate it to you. I have not advanced anything I have not got an abundance of backing for. There is more truth than poetry in this as sure as you live."
   

      Lisäys 2:Kirjoittanut: ote Jedediah M. Grantin 23.2.2008 klo 07.40

      puheesta UNIFORMITY: "Pass on still further in their history, and look at their course andconduct, if you will believe the writers that lived in that age. What doesold Celsus say, who was physician in the first century, whose medical worksare esteemed very highly at the present time. His works on theology wereburned with fire by the Catholics, they were so shocked at what they calledtheir impiety. Celsus was a heathen philosopher; and what does he say uponthe subject of Christ and his Apostles, and their belief? He says, "Thegrand reason why the Gentiles and philosophers of his school persecutedJesus Christ, was, because he had so many wives; there were Elizabeth, andMary, and a host of others that followed him." After Jesus went fromthe stage of action, the Apostles followed the example of their master.For instance, John the beloved disciple, writes in his second Epistle, "Untothe elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth." Again,he says, "Having many things to write unto you (or communicate), Iwould not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speakface to face, that our joy may be full." Again-"The children ofthy elect sister greet thee." This ancient philosopher says they wereboth John's wives. Paul says, "Mine answer to them that do examineme is this:-. Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles,and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas." He, according to Celsus,had a numerous train of wives. The grand reason of the burst of public sentiment in anathemas uponChrist and his disciples, causing his crucifixion, was evidently based uponpolygamy, according to the testimony of the philosophers who rose in thatage. A belief in the doctrine of a plurality of wives caused the persecutionof Jesus and his followers. We might almost think they were "Mormons."
   

      Kannattaa lukeaKirjoittanut: myös tämä 23.2.2008 klo 07.44

      hieno puhe: http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_20/JD20-024.html PLURAL MARRIAGE FOR THE RIGHTEOUS ONLY-OBEDIENCE IMPERATIVE-BLESSINGS RESULTING DISCOURSE BY ELDER JOSEPH F. SMITH, Delivered in the Tabernacle, Salt Lake City, Sunday Morning, July 7, 1878. (Reported by Geo. F. Gibbs.) VOLUME 20:24
   

      toinenkin kappaleKirjoittanut: taitaa olla oikein: 23.2.2008 klo 08.43

      http://journalofdiscourses.org/Vol_01/refJDvol1-10.html SELF-GOVERNMENT - MYSTERIES - RECREATION AND AMUSEMENTS, NOT IN THEMSELVES SINFUL - TITHING - ADAM, OUR FATHER AND OUR GOD A SERMON DELIVERED BY PRESIDENT BRIGHAM YOUNG, IN THE TABERNACLE,GREAT SALT LAKE CITY, APRIL 9, 1852 VOLUME:1:46 "My next sermon will be to both Saint and sinner. One thing has remained a mystery in this kingdom up to this day. It is in regard to the character of the well-beloved Son of God, upon which subject the Elders of Israel have conflicting views. Our God and Father in heaven, is a being of tabernacle,or, in other words, He has a body, with parts the same as you and I have; and is capable of showing forth His works to organized beings, as, for instance, in the world in which we live, it is the result of the knowledge and infinite wisdom that dwell in His organized body. His son Jesus Christ has become a personage of tabernacle, and has a body like his father. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of the Lord, and issues forth from Himself, and may properly be called God's minister to execute His will in immensity; being called to govern by His influence and power; but He is not a person of tabernacleas we are, and as our Father in Heaven and Jesus Christ are. The question has been, and is often, asked, who it was that begat the Son of the Virgin Mary. The infidel world have concluded that if what the Apostles wrote abou this father and mother be true, and the present marriage discipline acknowledged by Christendom be correct, then Christians must believe that God is the father of an illegitimate son, in the person of Jesus Christ! The infidel fraternity teach that to their disciples. I will tell you how it is. Our Father in Heaven begat all the spirits that ever were, or ever will be, upon this earth; and they were born spirits in the eternal world. Then the Lord by His power and wisdom organized the mortal tabernacle of man. We were made first spiritual, and afterwards temporal. Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken-He is our FATHER andour GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do. Every man upon the earth, professing Christians or non-professing, must hear it, and will know it sooner or later. They came here, organized the raw material, and arranged in their order the herbs of the field, the trees, the apple, the peach, the plum, the pear, and every other fruit that is desirable and good forman; the seed was brought from another sphere, and planted in this earth. The thistle, the thorn, the brier, and the obnoxious weed did not appear until after the earth was cursed. When Adam and Eve had eaten of the forbidden fruit, their bodies became mortal from its effects, and therefore their offspring were mortal. When the Virgin Mary conceived the child Jesus, theFather had begotten him in his own likeness. He was not begotten by theHoly Ghost. And who is the Father? He is the first of the human family; and when he took a tabernacle, it was begotten by his Father in heaven, after the same manner as the tabernacles of Cain, Abel, and the rest ofthe sons and daughters of Adam and Eve; from the fruits of the earth, the first earthly tabernacles were originated by the Father, and so on in succession.I could tell you much more about this; but were I to tell you the wholetruth, blasphemy would be nothing to it, in the estimation of the superstitiousand over-righteous of mankind. However, I have told you the truth as far as I have gone. I have heard men preach upon the divinity of Christ, and exhaust all the wisdom they possessed. All Scripturalists, and approved theologians who were considered exemplary for piety and education, have undertaken to expound on this subject, in every age of the Christian era;and after they have done all, they are obliged to conclude by exclaiming" great is the mystery of godliness," and tell nothing. It is true that the earth was organized by three distinct characters, namely, Eloheim, Yahovah, and Michael, these three forming a quorum, as in all heavenly bodies, and in organizing element, perfectly represented in the Deity, as Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Again, they will try to tell how the divinity of Jesus is joined to his humanity, and exhaust all their mental faculties, and wind up with this profound language, as describing the soul of man, "it is an immaterial substance!" What a learned idea! Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation. I have given you a few leading items upon this subject, but a great deal more remains to be told. Now, remember from this time forth, and for ever,that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. I will repeat a little anecdote. I was in conversation with a certain learned professor upon this subject, when I replied, to this idea-"if the Son was begotten by the Holy Ghost, it would be very dangerous to baptize and confirm females, and give the Holy Ghost to them, lest he should beget children, to be palmed upon the Elders by the people, bringing the Elders into great difficulties."
   

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