Lue järkyttävä tarina siitä, kuinka jehovaseurakunnat suojelivat 17-kertaista pedofiilia:
This is a very long story that I will try to condense. It will still probably be too long.
My name is Laurie Fitzwater. My father-in-law is Daniel Fitzwater Sr. He is the guy shown on dateline as the molester with at least 17 victims.
I met Dan when I was 13 years old. He took me under his wing when he moved to our congergation in Bradenton, FL in the early 80's. I was one of 10 kids with a father that was not a JW. Dan was suddenly "there for me". He had moved to FL with his wife and small daughter. Dan was very interested in the children at the hall. Amazingly everyone thought it was great that a regular pioneer took such an interest in kids. He soon became a MS and was very well liked by everyone, so it seemed. He really pushed me to baptism and being a person eager to please, I got baptized at age 14. Dan got way too close to me. Now looking back I realize that all the hugs and kisses were not appropriate. Although I did spend the night at his house on more than one occasion, I do not recall any real abuse. I do have lost memories and wonder how we ended up in the next town by ourselves when we were supposed to be out in service. (we were often way out of our territory) I later learned that many of the pet names he had for me were the same he used for his victims. Many of the things he said were the same that he said to others. When I was 14 Dan's son, Scott moved to FL to live with him. I met Scott and we really liked each other. He was 18 and under the impression that I was 16. (ok so I kinda lied about my age) His dad found out and freaked out. He kicked Scott out....Just for liking me! Scott and I remained good friends and I began seeing a different side of Dan. I also was learning of the physical abuse Scott had suffered as a child in the hands of his father. Soon I had really developed a hate for him. I'm not sure why my hate was so intense, but I knew that he was not the person he pretended to be.
Dan moved away suddenly, to Hazelhurst, GA. No explanation, just left. He became and elder there. He lived there a while and then moved back to Yerington, NV. where he had moved to FL from.
Lots of stuff in between, including myself and Scott getting married. He is nothing like his dad. We have now been married 14 1/2 years and more in love than ever. He is a gentle and kind husband and father.
The story broke for us when Dan Fitzwater Sr stepped down from his position as elder in the early 90's. In our efforts to find a reason we contacted Scott's Step-sister who he had not spoken to in many years. She told us that she had gone to the elders AGAIN about Dan having abused her as a child. She was removed by social services from the home when she was 15. Charges were being filed back then and the elders were informed. It was at that time that Dan FLED to FL and stayed away from Nevada for 7 years, exactly the statute of limitations on molestation in NV at the time. Scott's sister said that she had been trying 2 years to get some action through the congergation before she went to the DA. The congergation did nothing. Once the story went to the DA they asked him to step down as elder, but still said that they did not have sufficient evidence to DF Dan. In the meantime, 2 other girls had come forward. They grew up with Dan's kids. Still nothing was done. While Dan was still an elder, and unsuspecting family moved to Yerington. They left their 8 year old daughter in Dan's wife's care while they went on a hunting trip. After all they could trust the congergation overseer and his wife! His wife delivered this 8 year old to Dan and left the house. He abused her. She kept silent for 2 years, until she attempted suicide and the truth came out. Even with 4 witnesses they would not DF Dan. They said that they had to have 2 witnesses to EACH INDIVIDUAL INCIDENT! The victims had the same story and were (approx) ages 31, 20, and 10. Not three disident friends conspiring against him.
Charges were brought against Dan when the little girl tried to kill herself. At that point it was made known to the authorities by the hospital. Dan was convicted after 15 minutes of Jury diliberation. He had lied so much that he hung himself. His wife lied too. They did not lie well. Dan was still not being DFed! I learned that a rep from the WTS was at his trial. The elders in his cong said that the WTS took over the case. The WTS (namely Mario Mareno) said that the congergation was in charge of DFing and that the WTS does not involve themselves in the process.
I was questioning the elders in my hall as to how this could happen? And why werent they DFing Dan who was going to prison.
I would not accept their pat answer to wait on Jehovah and have faith. I was a very faithful witness up until then. I was raised in it and had aux pioneered off and on. I was a virgin until marrage and I had NEVER been drunk or tried drugs. I was a model witness teen and young wife/mother. I made almost every meeting and commented regularly. Now suddenly, as I questioned what was going on, I was labeled an apostate. They decided to DF me after a very emotional meeting in which I pleaded for mercy. I appealed. I figured these brother (two of whom new me for many years) were mistaken. (this was as my husband was preparing to go to NV and testify against his dad)I was not an apostate. I simply had questions. The appeal process took a long time. I had my appeal meeting within days, But my appeal brother thought I should be shown mercy. The elders from the first commitee argued with them. I was excused to the next room but could hear the brothers on the first comittee yelling that I was a danger to the congergation.( even though I told NO ONE in the congergation about Dan except my mother) They told me to go home as they could not make a decision and they would have to write the WTS for a decision. One elder told me that the WTS would not write a letter directly telling them what to do, but that they would add scriptures to the letter. If the scriptures were about mercy I was not to be DFed. If they were about Judgement and keeping clean, I was to be DFed. A lot happened in between. A very long story and I had become very sick from the stress. I was placed on high blood pressure meds and was diagnosed with asthma. I was having asthma attacks for the first time in my life. I decided that I could not handle another commitee meeting and felt I did not have a chance so I wrote a letter to DA. The day they were to read it I got a call from an elder. He said that the letter came back to DF me. He asked how I wanted it to be announced. I said DA. I thought people would think I had cheated on my husband if I was DFed. They thought that anyway.
Dan Fitzwater still sits in prison. He will be realeased in 2 years. He is still a JW in good standing. He preaches in prison. Makes me sick. The WTS gave over evidence in the trial in the form of a letter by a circuit overseer to the WTS against Dan that mentioned that Dan had 17 victims. The DA knew of 4. Everyone I know knew of only 4. The WTS had info that there were 17. What we have derived from that is that these were members of the congergations Dan was in that went to the elders. None of these were acted upon.
I spoke out and lost my mother, 3 brothers, 6 Nieces & nephews, and all my lifelong friends. All except my best friend who never was baptized and I treated her very badly for years. She was after all, "bad assosiation". After I left the JWs I rekindeled our friendship. She welcomed me back to her life with open arms. She forgave me. She has her own story. I think she prefers to keep it hers. She endured much abuse at the hands of her "annointed" step-father. Again, it was another case of the elders looking the other way and refusing to get involved.
I would gladly do it over again. I have gained much more than I lost. My husband is by my side and our kids are very happy. Life is good for us now that we know the REAL truth.
I have left out a lot of this story. It is simply too long to tell, but the bottom line is that the WTS lied to us, the local elders in Bradenton and in Yerington lied to us. They threatened us with DF and went through with it in my case, and DANIEL S. FITZWATER SR is in prison as a pervert child molester and is a JW in good standing.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28800&site=3
This is a very long story that I will try to condense. It will still probably be too long.
My name is Laurie Fitzwater. My father-in-law is Daniel Fitzwater Sr. He is the guy shown on dateline as the molester with at least 17 victims.
I met Dan when I was 13 years old. He took me under his wing when he moved to our congergation in Bradenton, FL in the early 80's. I was one of 10 kids with a father that was not a JW. Dan was suddenly "there for me". He had moved to FL with his wife and small daughter. Dan was very interested in the children at the hall. Amazingly everyone thought it was great that a regular pioneer took such an interest in kids. He soon became a MS and was very well liked by everyone, so it seemed. He really pushed me to baptism and being a person eager to please, I got baptized at age 14. Dan got way too close to me. Now looking back I realize that all the hugs and kisses were not appropriate. Although I did spend the night at his house on more than one occasion, I do not recall any real abuse. I do have lost memories and wonder how we ended up in the next town by ourselves when we were supposed to be out in service. (we were often way out of our territory) I later learned that many of the pet names he had for me were the same he used for his victims. Many of the things he said were the same that he said to others. When I was 14 Dan's son, Scott moved to FL to live with him. I met Scott and we really liked each other. He was 18 and under the impression that I was 16. (ok so I kinda lied about my age) His dad found out and freaked out. He kicked Scott out....Just for liking me! Scott and I remained good friends and I began seeing a different side of Dan. I also was learning of the physical abuse Scott had suffered as a child in the hands of his father. Soon I had really developed a hate for him. I'm not sure why my hate was so intense, but I knew that he was not the person he pretended to be.
Dan moved away suddenly, to Hazelhurst, GA. No explanation, just left. He became and elder there. He lived there a while and then moved back to Yerington, NV. where he had moved to FL from.
Lots of stuff in between, including myself and Scott getting married. He is nothing like his dad. We have now been married 14 1/2 years and more in love than ever. He is a gentle and kind husband and father.
The story broke for us when Dan Fitzwater Sr stepped down from his position as elder in the early 90's. In our efforts to find a reason we contacted Scott's Step-sister who he had not spoken to in many years. She told us that she had gone to the elders AGAIN about Dan having abused her as a child. She was removed by social services from the home when she was 15. Charges were being filed back then and the elders were informed. It was at that time that Dan FLED to FL and stayed away from Nevada for 7 years, exactly the statute of limitations on molestation in NV at the time. Scott's sister said that she had been trying 2 years to get some action through the congergation before she went to the DA. The congergation did nothing. Once the story went to the DA they asked him to step down as elder, but still said that they did not have sufficient evidence to DF Dan. In the meantime, 2 other girls had come forward. They grew up with Dan's kids. Still nothing was done. While Dan was still an elder, and unsuspecting family moved to Yerington. They left their 8 year old daughter in Dan's wife's care while they went on a hunting trip. After all they could trust the congergation overseer and his wife! His wife delivered this 8 year old to Dan and left the house. He abused her. She kept silent for 2 years, until she attempted suicide and the truth came out. Even with 4 witnesses they would not DF Dan. They said that they had to have 2 witnesses to EACH INDIVIDUAL INCIDENT! The victims had the same story and were (approx) ages 31, 20, and 10. Not three disident friends conspiring against him.
Charges were brought against Dan when the little girl tried to kill herself. At that point it was made known to the authorities by the hospital. Dan was convicted after 15 minutes of Jury diliberation. He had lied so much that he hung himself. His wife lied too. They did not lie well. Dan was still not being DFed! I learned that a rep from the WTS was at his trial. The elders in his cong said that the WTS took over the case. The WTS (namely Mario Mareno) said that the congergation was in charge of DFing and that the WTS does not involve themselves in the process.
I was questioning the elders in my hall as to how this could happen? And why werent they DFing Dan who was going to prison.
I would not accept their pat answer to wait on Jehovah and have faith. I was a very faithful witness up until then. I was raised in it and had aux pioneered off and on. I was a virgin until marrage and I had NEVER been drunk or tried drugs. I was a model witness teen and young wife/mother. I made almost every meeting and commented regularly. Now suddenly, as I questioned what was going on, I was labeled an apostate. They decided to DF me after a very emotional meeting in which I pleaded for mercy. I appealed. I figured these brother (two of whom new me for many years) were mistaken. (this was as my husband was preparing to go to NV and testify against his dad)I was not an apostate. I simply had questions. The appeal process took a long time. I had my appeal meeting within days, But my appeal brother thought I should be shown mercy. The elders from the first commitee argued with them. I was excused to the next room but could hear the brothers on the first comittee yelling that I was a danger to the congergation.( even though I told NO ONE in the congergation about Dan except my mother) They told me to go home as they could not make a decision and they would have to write the WTS for a decision. One elder told me that the WTS would not write a letter directly telling them what to do, but that they would add scriptures to the letter. If the scriptures were about mercy I was not to be DFed. If they were about Judgement and keeping clean, I was to be DFed. A lot happened in between. A very long story and I had become very sick from the stress. I was placed on high blood pressure meds and was diagnosed with asthma. I was having asthma attacks for the first time in my life. I decided that I could not handle another commitee meeting and felt I did not have a chance so I wrote a letter to DA. The day they were to read it I got a call from an elder. He said that the letter came back to DF me. He asked how I wanted it to be announced. I said DA. I thought people would think I had cheated on my husband if I was DFed. They thought that anyway.
Dan Fitzwater still sits in prison. He will be realeased in 2 years. He is still a JW in good standing. He preaches in prison. Makes me sick. The WTS gave over evidence in the trial in the form of a letter by a circuit overseer to the WTS against Dan that mentioned that Dan had 17 victims. The DA knew of 4. Everyone I know knew of only 4. The WTS had info that there were 17. What we have derived from that is that these were members of the congergations Dan was in that went to the elders. None of these were acted upon.
I spoke out and lost my mother, 3 brothers, 6 Nieces & nephews, and all my lifelong friends. All except my best friend who never was baptized and I treated her very badly for years. She was after all, "bad assosiation". After I left the JWs I rekindeled our friendship. She welcomed me back to her life with open arms. She forgave me. She has her own story. I think she prefers to keep it hers. She endured much abuse at the hands of her "annointed" step-father. Again, it was another case of the elders looking the other way and refusing to get involved.
I would gladly do it over again. I have gained much more than I lost. My husband is by my side and our kids are very happy. Life is good for us now that we know the REAL truth.
I have left out a lot of this story. It is simply too long to tell, but the bottom line is that the WTS lied to us, the local elders in Bradenton and in Yerington lied to us. They threatened us with DF and went through with it in my case, and DANIEL S. FITZWATER SR is in prison as a pervert child molester and is a JW in good standing.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28800&site=3
Vastaukset 45
Vanhimmat
enpä ymmärtänyt puoliakaan jutusta, kielitaitoni nollilla. Saisko suomeksi.
on usein hyötyä aikuisiällä.
Jätän nuo omaan arvoonsa. Jehovalaiset ovat fiksuja ihmisiä, pitävät huolta lapsistaan ja läheisistään. Tekevät työnsä tunnollisesti ja maksavat veronsa. Ja noudattavat elämässään korkeaa moraalia, joka suojelee monilta taudeilta ja seuraamuksilta, kuten aviottomilta lapsilta.
Ihmettelen sitä, kun olet noin vakuuttunut omasta "tieteellisestä" näkemyksestäsi, niin miten ihmeessä vietät täällä aikasi aamusta seuraavaan aamun pikkutuneeille asti herätäksesi taas tänne aamulla uudestaan??
Luulisi, että sinulla olisi parempaakin tekemistä kuin viettää aikaasi meidän vajaa-älyisten kanssa?
Ihmettelen myös sitä, miten agressiivisesti puolustat näkemyksiäsi leimaamalla ja haukkumalla ihmisiä ties miksi jos he vain vihjaavatkaan uskovansa raamattuun ja Jumalaan.
Miten mahtaa olla ihmis-suhde asioidesi kanssa?
Tämä ei pahalla, mutta hyväksy ihmiset näkemyksineen sellaisina kuin ovat äläkä väheksy heitä esim. uskontonsa perusteella.
Kun loppui paukut, niin piti henkilökohtaisesti ryöpyttää!
En ole ollut, enkä ole Jt. Toivottavasti tämä selvisi nyt.
Ja ihmettelyni on edelleenkin kiinnostuksesi Jehovan Todistajia kohtaan. Siinä on jotain merkillistä:-)
.
asioista paljon. Kielitaidosta siihen on paljonkaan hyötyä. JT:t ovat saaneet niin paljon pahaa aikaan niin omassa perheessäni, että monissa muissakin, että sitä ei voi sanoin kuvailla. Sovittaisiinko niin, jos mahdollista, käyttettäisiin suomea, jota kaikki ymmärtävät.
Minuahan kiinnostaa kaikki säälittävät eksytyskultit.
väitteesi on sitä luokkaa, että se vaatii aika vankat perustelut, Selitykseksi ei riitä että olet ollut J.T. yhteydessä.
Ota huomioon, jokainen ihminen voi tutustua J.T. nuorten ja lasten ohjeisiin. esim. nuoret kysyvät kirjan avulla. Lisäksi monet tuntevat J.T.jia , ja tietävät tuon valhehteluksi ja myös sen, että J. todistajien yhteydessä olleista lapsia kohtelevat huonosti vain uskosta luopuneet epätotuuksia laukovat yksilöt. Jätä tuollaiset sammakot pois.
Ennenkuin minä tutustuin asiaan, tapasin muutamia kaltaisiasi ihmisiä, ihmettelin heidän vihjailujaan, tein muutaman kysymyksen ja sain valheesta kiinni ja sanoin tulloin suorasanaisena Luterilaisena suoran kommentin asista,
yleensä höpötykset loppuivat siihen.
"että J. todistajien yhteydessä olleista lapsia kohtelevat huonosti vain uskosta luopuneet epätotuuksia laukovat yksilöt."
Tuo on puppua. Jo pelkkä "oikea" JT-kasvatus on lapsen henkistä pahoinpitelyä. Teikäläisillä lapsi ei saa viettää syntymäpäiviä, eikä hän saa myöskään ottaa osaa koulukavereidensa synttäreille. Sama koskee joulunviettoa ja joululahjoja. Ongelma olisi pienempi, jos jehovat eläisivät suurina yhteisöinä niin kuin lestadiolaiset usein tekevät. Teikäläisten lapsille tuskin tulisi psyykkisiä ongelmia teikäläisten poikkeavista tavoista johtuen, jos lapsi eläisi sellaisessa yhteisössä jossa menettely olisi arkipäivää. Lapsihan luonnollisesti vertaa itseään koulukavereihinsa. Sellainen jehovalaislapsi, joita useimmat ovat, joka on ainoa kaltaisensa omassa koululuokassaan, kärsii sisimmässään katkerasti. Ihminen on luonnostaan laumaeläin ja koululuokka muodostaa koululaiselle luontaisen lauman. Lapsi joka ei saa ottaa osaa kavereidensa synttäreihin eikä voi kertoa kavereilleen mitään joululahjoistaan (olemattomista) melko todennäköisesti saa vamman sieluunsa.
Mielenterveysongelmat ovatkin yleisempiä jehovalaislapsilla kuin väestöllä keskimäärin.
Sanot: "Mielenterveysongelmat ovatkin yleisempiä jehovalaislapsilla kuin väestöllä keskimäärin. "
Oletko ystävällinen, ja kerrot, mihin tutkimukseen perustat väitteesi ja esität lähteen tämän palstan lukijoille?
Vai onko tuo taas sellainen "mutu"-väite, jota nykyisin harrastat?
Väität uskovasi Odiniin ja olet kuitenkin selkeä ateisti, joka kieltää luomisen???
Päätä jo.
http://www.premier1.net/~raines/mental.html
"A scientific literature review found that the rate of mental illness among Jehovah's Witnesses is considerably above average. The specific level found in the research varies partly because the extant research was on different populations and time periods. The major factors identified as either helpful or harmful to Witness mental health were discussed. Although persons with emotional problems tended to join the Witnesses, the Watchtower teachings and its subculture clearly adversely affected the mental health of those involved. The official Watchtower attitude on mental illness was also examined as were the common beliefs about the problem among Witnesses."
Eli lyhyesti: Jehovan todistajilla on keskimääräistä enemmän mielenterveysongelmia. Jehovan todistajiksi ryhtyvät herkemmin sellaiset, joilla on ongelmia jo alun perinkin mutta JT opetukset ja kulttuuri pahentavat asiaa entisestään.
Minä en kauppaa kenellekään mitään uskoa. Minä vain arvostelen sellaisia uskomuksia, jotka selkeästi eivät ole totta. Arvostelen eksytyksiä, jotka ovat ristiriidassa tieteellisten faktojen tai historiallisen totuuden kanssa. Miten sellainen voisi olla eksytystä?
Kiitos hyvästä linkistä.
Uskovaisuuden ja mielenterveysongelmien korrelaatiosta olen lukenut ennenkin. Samoin mielenterveystoimistoissa työtään tekevien psykologien mielestä korrelaatio on ilmeinen. He ovat tuossa asiassa ehdottomia asintuntijoita, joten uskon heitä ennen kuin jehovia tai muita hihhuleita.
taidan palata astialle uuden otsikon kera.
Tiedät siis mikä ei ainakaan pidä paikkaansa?
Millä perusteella voit puhua esim. Raamatustakaan mitään, kun sitä ei voi lukea ymmärtäen, ilman Pyhää Henkeä? Kukaan muu ei siis voi, eikä osaa sitä tulkita oikein.
Ja sitten omiin uskomuksiisi, jotka ovat käsittämättömän ristiitaisia. Uskot Odiniin pakana, mutta entä Ukko? Uskotko Ukon vai Odinin olevan korkein jumala?
Samalla kuitenkin puhut luomista vastaan.
Jos kerrot, mikä ei ole totta, niin kerro toki mikä on!
http://jehovantodistajat.fi
lukutaitoinen voi lukea Raamatusta itsestään, että se valehtelee.
mantroja netistä, jotka useinmiten on luopioitten kirjoittamia, kaikki kunnon tutkimuksiin perustuvat faktat puuttuvat. Olen jo usein todennut, että joillekkin netti näkyy olevan "Jumala" jossa kaikki kirjoitettu on muka totta. Nuo kirjoitukset eivät ole sen luotettavampia kuin niiden kirjoittajat. On turha ottaa tänne tuollaisia todistamattomia väitteitä, eikä englannin kieli tee siitä luottavampaa, päinvastoin.
minä jo ehdin odottelemaan, että milloin saavut huutamaan "luopiota".
Noinhan se menee joka kerta. Kuitenkin, teet hyvää työtä. Ihmiset tajuavat vähitellen millaisia jehovat ovat. Siis se suht. pieni osa ihmisistä jotka eivät vielä ole tienneet.
Sinä perustat Odinille elämäsi jo nimimerkistäkin ja jutuista päätellen, joten onko hänestä ensinkään kirjoitettu mitään, vai meneekö vielä ainoastaan perimätietona?
Miksi et vastaa kysymyksiin? Koska valhe kiertelee. Etkö jo huomaa, mitä taktiikkaa käytät?
Etkö ole Saanut isäntäsi Saatanan luonnetta selville Raamatusta? Haluatko todella palvella häntä?
Ilmeisesti, koska kaikki muut käyvät, paitsi totuus. Kristinukson Jumala on siis totuus, mutta puheistasi päätellen viimeinen "todennäköinen" jumala sinun mielestäsi.
Saatana ei ole minun isäntäni. En palvo Lähi-Idän jumalia.
Kristinuskon Jumala on kaikkea muuta kuin totuus. Se selviää Raamattua lukemalla. Tuo kristinuskon Jumala on liian valheellinen ollakseen totuus.
Miten Odinia palvotaan?
Pääseekö asiassa hyvään alkuun,jos ostaa Kalevala Korun Odinin vasara-kaulariipuksen?
orjaa, joka ei edes näe kuka pitää sinua riippunukkenaan.
Kristinusko Jumala jos ei ole totuus, niin miten on mahdollista että Odin olisi? Odinin palvelijat hylkäsivät tuon vuonojen tarzanin kun saivat tosiJumalasta tiedon!
Raamattua lukemalla selviää etteivät ihmiset tiedä vielä kaikkea, ja se on totta.
Valheellisuutta Jumalassa ei silti ole, olisi hyvä että vetäisit totuuden etsijä-roolisi edes hieman totuudenmukaisemmin.
ainakin on mytologian mukaan Odinin piti riippu puussa, oliko se nyt 9 päivää, jotta pääsisi vihkiytymään toiseen maailmaan.
Eli jos näet viikinkivermeet päällä kirmaavia ja puissa roikkuvia nuorukaisia, niin ehkäpä he eivät olekkaan viherpipertäjiä tai roolipelaajia, vaan heitä jotka juuri harjoittavat kyseistä uskontoa!? ;D
Se on Thorin vasara!
padapaduu!
se vasara oli?
että hätätilassa Thor sallii käytettävän Bilnäsiä. Ainakin mieluummin kuin amerikkalaista.
Ketä tahansa muuta palvot kuin oikeata Jumalaa, niin palvot Saatanaa. Vaikka et palvoisi mitään - minkä olen ollut huomaavinani, niin palvot silloin itseäsi. Olet nostanut itsesi Jumalan tasolle "viisaudessasi". Olet siis itsellesi suurin tiennäyttäjä ja palvonnan kohde.
Korjaa toki, jos olen väärässä.
Jos mollaat Jumalaa, niin kerro vaihtoehto.
Kerrot, että et palvo Lähi-idän jumalia. Tarkoitatko, että jumalat ovat alueellisia?
Vastaa kysymyksiin, että päästään asialliseen keskusteluun.
Ole mies, äläkä kiemurteleva käärme.
Saatanan koukusta on mahdollista päästä ainoastaan Jeesuksen avulla.
mitenkäs kovaan tahtiin sillä niitä kului? Ajattelin vain että oliko hänellä kenties sponsori-sopimus jonkun sepän tai firman kera, ainakin vissiin.
Et pysty asialliseen keskusteluun, jossa sinun uskomuksesi laitetaan vastakkain jonkun toisen uskomukseen.
Vai pystytkö? Mitä pelkäät?
Saatanan koukkuun pääsee nimenomaan Jeesuksesi matkassa. Saatana ja Jeesus ovat kristittyjen jumalia.
Sinä olet jankannut noita samoja kysymyksiä lievästi liioitellen miljoona kertaa. Aina kysyt samaa uudestaan.
Pimennys vain muistuttaa puimakonetta jankkaamalla. Sinussakin on kyllä samaa vikaa.
Kalevala Korulla on Odinin vasara-riipus.Onko se sitten ihan eri asia kuin Thorin vasara?
Ihan kivan näköinen koru muuten...
En kuitenkaan menisi heti Ilomantsin ristiä siihen vaihtamaan.
Oletko sitä mieltä?
Raamattuhan kertoo Saatanan olevan TÄMÄN MAAILMAN JUMALAN ja samoin kertoo kristityille, että
TE ETTE OLE TÄSTÄ MAAILMASTA.
Ymmärrätkö eron?
Niin ei tarvitse jankata.
säestää, jumputijumputi?
Ellei sitten Kalevala-korussa olla asiaatuntemattomia. Paljonhan maailmaan mahtuu väärää tietoa.
Korufirmahan voi keksiä vaikka Jeesuksen vasaran. Se ei tarkoita että aikoinaan olisi ollut Jeesus, ja vaikka olisi ollut Jeesus, niin että tuolla Jeesuksella olisi ollut vasara.
Raamattuhan todistettavasti puhuu paskaa. Jeesus ja Saatana ovat joka tapauksessa saman uskonnon kaksi jumalaa.
Ei Saatana ole Jumala, vaan hallitsija, jonka vallassa kaikki on, elleivät ole Jumalan hallinnassa.
Lukeehan sekin Raamatussa.
Luetko Raamatusta vain valheet?
kaikki artikkelit joita sinä lainaat ovat jo sen perusteella menettäneet uskottavuutensa..
Juhanipin kroonista valehtelua on tarkasteltu lähemmin mm. täällä:
http://www.jippii.fi/forumit/uskojaelama/?ref=162984&op=msg