Ladies, answer this question. Did you decide to have a baby with a foreign man faster than you would have decided to procreate with a Finnish guy? I mean, if/when you dated earlier with a finnish guy, did you ever have an urge to have a kid with him as much as you had with the guy from a different culture?
You see a LOT of women with babies that have darker skin than their mother has. Very young women too. Is this a real phenomenon or is it just a coincidence that I have seen them so much lately? Is there a pattern? Does it matter how fast things happen if the boyfriend/husband is not finnish?
You see a LOT of women with babies that have darker skin than their mother has. Very young women too. Is this a real phenomenon or is it just a coincidence that I have seen them so much lately? Is there a pattern? Does it matter how fast things happen if the boyfriend/husband is not finnish?
Vastaukset 46
Vanhimmat
Kiitos:)
I think babies with darker (than finnish) skin colour just stick out.
About things happening faster: there might be truth there. When you meet someone who doesn't live exactly next door, you have to make decisions. For some that seems to be a baby. My boyfriend is from west Europe and we decided to live together quite soon, because didn't want to be apart from each othe - now baby in plans though.
Or maybe black guys just are not into contraception...
omapa on asiansa...
Suomalaisexän kanssa ei ollut pohjaa hankkia lapsia, mutta nythän se on ex ja syystä. Nykyisen kanssa olen vanhempi ja kypsempi ja siksi lastenhankinta on puheena ja piakkoin ryhdytään toimeenkin. Tosin mies ei ole musta eikä lapsesta siis luultavasti näkisi, että isä on ulkomaalainen.
Tosiasia on kyllä sekin, että ruskeaihoiset lapset ovat usein älyttömän söpöjä.
I one of the answers someone said that one has to put things on the fast track because of all the pressure from circumstances: distance and probably paperwork, visas and so on. I was also thinking that maybe finnish guys are not so much into children than guys from other cultures, or why does that kind of a picture come in my mind?
It is also true that babies with darker skin stick out, but that does not explain everything, there must be also a growing number of them, with a cute nickname; cafe au lait babies. :)
One topic that I am sure one of the writers will offer is of course the famous getting a reason to stay in a country for a foreign guy. That may be true in some cases; if there are finnish girls who are willing to have a baby fast, blinded by love or just plain hoping and wishing for the best, and those guys who desperately need a stable situation to have the residence permit. I wonder in how many cases the parents stay together and in how many cases they break up?
How many finnish women end up being single moms with a half foreign baby, is it increasing rapidly or not?
We want and need more babies here in Finland, and each of them is a treasure.
But of course we want the babies to be as happy as possible, live in a stable families, have bright future prospects etc.
Young Finnish women,think about it. It's your turn to decide your children's and our country's future.
Many of those "cafe au lait" babies have probably never seen their fathers. There's a growing number of women who travel to 3rd world countries with a plan, and that is to get pregnant. Their biological clocks are ticking and maybe they feel like they're running out of time. In many cases the men are nothing more than sperm donors. They'll never know they have kids in Finland.
Many of those "cafe au lait" babies have probably never seen their fathers. There's a growing number of women who travel to 3rd world countries with a plan, and that is to get pregnant. Their biological clocks are ticking and maybe they feel like they're running out of time. In many cases the men are nothing more than sperm donors. They'll never know they have kids in Finland.
Well, I have never heard of such a thing - women who would actually have a plan to get pregnant particulary in so called third world countries. That may be exaggeration and I am more talking about the two-cultured relationships and the fast track with children.
I know few persons who have got pregnant within one year after they started dating with a foreign guy and that amazes me because I do not know any example like that among finnish-finnish couples. That is why I am wondering here, does it matter if the boyfriend/husband in foreign and why is that? Is it really so that women are more hasty or just purely faster with guys that come from different culture. What is the thing behind it? The guys and their need to have a baby?
No minä kyllä tiedän monta esimerkkiä, jossa suomimies on laittanut naisen paksuksi jo ennen suhteen aloittamista. Eikä lasten hankkiminen ole mitenkään harvinaista vuoden yhdessäolon jälkeen suomi-suomi pareillekaan.
mukana kuvioissa ja kenellä ei? Tai kuinka nopeassa tahdissa on lapsoset tehty? Miksi, miksi tulee niin provottu olo että näin..
Tunnen tapauksia eikä suomalaisparien nopea lisääntyminen mikään valtiosalaisuus ole.
not willing or ready to have child/children before they have been together long time with their partner.
Young finnish-finnish couples usually wannna spend quality time together and travel before they want to have a baby.
Scandinavian lifestyle is very different compairing many others. Many couples want only one child and in most of the cases sex of the child is no issue.
Wanting a child is sign of love to a finn,
it´s telling that one has plans to make a serious relationship and stick around forever.
Because 99% of finnish men would meant that....
I guess it is partly because of my own twocultured relationship that I have also met so many finnish women in twocultured relationships and most of them have had a child very fast. I do know also finnish-finnish couples, it is not that I would not know any. My finnish boyfriend have never talked about children as a plan of the near future. The plan is there yes, but it is also somewhere far away. That is why I am wondering the difference or rather "difference" between finnish women I know and finnish men that I know.
If or when man says to his "woman" that he wants to have a child with her,
finnish woman will take it as a ultimate ackt of love.
It don`t nesceserely be one, if it`s not coming from a finnish man, but she will take it like.
I'm a Cafe mocha kinda girl myself (what comes to COFFEE that is...) but to answer to you sincere guestion; Nope. I haven't felt any stronger urge to fall pregnant with foreign men what so ever.
hmm.... last summer i was really surprised, i was town going to some football match there were two african country against some other country. There were some african people gathering anyway..
Me and my friend were there good time before the match begin so i saw lot finnis (white skinned women anyway) women with their babys.. all of the kids looked aged some moths to age around 10, mostly i saw 2-5 old next to the game area were these kids playing around.. i don't know their exatly ages cuz never went to ask all of them about their kids ages it is just my own estimate but anyway doesen't mean they couldn't have though
all white women i saw there were 25-35 aged..(more than 50 white women and i'm not exaggerating)
and this is only my estimate again i didn't went all trough asking their ages..i think not single one under 20 old white women saw there that day..
i don't want pick on a certain group say bad word way or other just said what i did saw there..
these things just caught my eye
I don't have experience with finnish girls about this baby issue but with asian woman i do have. She were older than me okey so on her side i do understand that her "clock" is tickin but she wanted have a baby after six moths dating.. honestly that shit scared me.. :D
(she had stayd here already 5 years so i guess visa were not the issue this time)
and ps. sorry about my poor english i hope you guys understand anyway
että mikä sinua ihmetytti.
Jos on kaksi joukkueellista afrikkalaissyntyisiä miehiä ja he asuvat Suomessa, niin melko varmasti heidän vaimonsa/tyttöystävänsä ovat suomalaisia....
I really do not mean to offend anyone. I am sorry if my thoughts are pushing some bad buttons in some people's minds. I have few finnish friends, girls, who are desperately after black guys. Since they, in some point, started to date with a black guy, they have not dated a finnish/white guy anymore. Of course they may be exceptions among finnish women, but seeing a kind of behaviour so close I have been more confused about the whole thing. Even though I know them, I cannot ask why do you do this, why are you after only black guys. I mean, they probably do not even realize it or admit it even if they are sometimes joking: once you taste the black, there is no way back.
One of the girls has a baby for a guy who has not even seen his daughter. He is informed about her though. Another girl is actually, honestly trying to get pregnant although she has hard time admitting it even to herself. She and her boyfriend are having sex without contraception and twice she has took the morning after pill, too late because she says she could not hurry to the pharmacy. She swears that the next time they will use a condom, but when the moment comes, she never insists such a thing. Then she is anxious and hopeful when she is waiting for the pregnancy test. And also disappointed when there is no baby on the way. That amazes me so. Is it really the same way with finnish relationships too??
"I mean, they probably do not even realize it or admit it even if they are sometimes joking: once you taste the black, there is no way back."
Do you honestly think that a normal Finnish guy would get together with a girl who has a history with black men?
Once you go black, you can't come back, that's true alright...
Oh, my knowledge about normal finnish guys is not that wide to say anything in this matter: would a finn date a woman who has been with a foreign guy. I do not know and I cannot predict.
It is just that these ladies that I know really seem to have an obsession towards certain men. I may not be right but that is how I see it. And that babyboom is something that I find hard to understand. That is why I am so puzzled and asking about the opinion or views people have.
The FACT is that if a finnish guy knows that the girl has past with a black guy, there is no coming back. Another FACT is that no finnish woman who has least bit of self esteem will date with black guy.
Only blondes, usually size of a whale, of whom no finnish guy would date, will date with black guys. These are same whales who date with muslims and rest of the scum. These individuals want to have babies straight away.
Actually these individuals should be sterilized.
I do not make hasty generalizing about things, especially people. I have got to know these women I am talking about through hobbies and through friends and at least they do not fit to that cathegory. They are rather trying to be "black" themselves, dressing up with a hip hop style, taking afro-dancing lessons or special music-related dances (hip hop that was mentioned earlier). They love black music and try to imitate the black attitude. That is of course only my own experience.
In a way, we have fell out of the original track and we should be talking about why, or if it is so, women are more quicker to have children with foreign guys. We also have to remember that in many cultures the idea of children is very different than what I know about finnish culture. The small size of a regular family is one example of the "attitude" or custom in Finland. Maybe foreign guys just have different view about children and finnish women somehow imitate that idea or just go with the flow.
These Finnish "afro-dance or hip hop classes attending wannabe black" girls fall into a certain category. They want to prove that they're not "juntti" as all Finnish men are in their opinion, and that they're so international and open minded. So the best way to prove this seems to be to abandon your own culture and "join" another culture, one that is trendy and as far away from the Finnish culture as possible.
It all stems from a low self esteem. By having a black boyfriend and an exotic-looking baby these girls try to force the world to see themself as "victims"; victims of prejudism, racism, discrimination etc. They try to stand out from the rest of us as much as possible to get the attention they need so they could come up with an excuse of "racial oppression". This gives them a readily packaged explanation for example why they haven't achieved such and such things in their lives.
Another reason why they just have to have a baby in such a haste, besides manifesting their roles as victims which they've chosen by themselves, is that it is so damn easy in the Finnish welfare society. A lot of those black boyfriends are not much of providers or ideal father figures; many of them not even willing to see their baby but rather run away fast; but unfortunately the Finnish society answers that call in the role of a virtual husband and provider. Kela and sossu which means practically all taxpayers, are often the breadwinners in that virtual family. This only encourages the wannabe-black Finnish girls to have a bunch of mocha children without having to worry too much about financial troubles.
"Foreign" is not the same as "black."
Tässä taas hieno esimerkki, tietyn tyyppisen suomalaisen miehen fiksuudesta, kohteliaisuudesta, tunteettomuudesta ja keskustelukyvyttömyydestä. Juntit rules :D Onneksi on teitä, niin me muut loistamme paremmuudessamme.
nyt ala FAKTOITTELEMAAN meidän muiden puolesta.
Kelpaisko sulle muuten Beyonce? Eva Longoria? Heidi Klum? No ei tietenkään, nehän on niin SAASTUNEITA...
:D
I wanted to talk generally about foreign guys, not exactly people under the code word "black" because it depends on the person who is defining what is black. Like I started this conversation in my very first text, I was using the word foreign.
You certainly have an interesting theory about this phenomenon. Have you thought, why would it be so? Why finnish women see their own culture as something to abandon? Why would they want to adopt another culture and become "victims" with a burden that does not belong to them? How is this attitude born among the so called wannabe black girls?
Living outside Finland I have noticed that also in other countries you sometimes see women who are trying to fit into the culture of their boyfriends/husbands, even if we are talking only about the personal culture, not necessary a culture from another country. I have not noticed the same thing among men, at least with such a volyme as among women.
I am talking about women who start to wear ponchos if they date a Mexican guy or a girl who suddenly starts wearing bindi and sari when dating an Indian guy. I guess that a quick but maybe a false conclucion could be, that women are more "moldable". They somehow want to please their guys by going into their direction whether the question is about social class or even a different culture. Okay, I do not confess that I would be wearing suomi-shirts and joining to traditional "tanhu"-classes just because of a finn! :)
Now that we are talking also about black culture, I must say that women very easily also speak "black english", using even the most ridiculous slang words that do not even fit in their mouth. That is also a thing that has amazed me very deeply. What is this "adopting" a culture all about?
I think, when talking about the finnish men, a man under the age of 25 at least, maybe even 28 or so, who really wants to have a child is guite rare. I have not studied this phenomenon, my opinion is only based on what I've experienced myself and what I've heard from my friends. The women that I know, on the other hand, are more willing to have a child when they themselves are in their twenties.
My ex (finnish) was not exactly against the idea of having a child, but I didn't see him as suitable for being a father at that point. I was still studying so we didn't really discuss having children.
My husband, an african, although younger than my ex, seems way more responsible and more of a father. In his culture it's normal to have children quite soon after you've got married, too. So he's kind of expecting it. And that's why I no longer feel the need to keep waiting with the pregnancy.
I strongly believe that there is a big difference in the attitudes and ideas about children between Finland and other countries. I may be wrong but my picture about Finnish culture is based on the strength of individualism and independence. Family is not so important although it is not indifferent either. But rarely I have seen my boyfriend actually leaning on his parents and asking for help or advice.
I think that in some level, finnish people see children as a "burden" or inevitable must later in their life. A very usual thought that I have heard goes something like: Well, I do not want to have kids that much but I do not want to be alone when I am old and if I do not have children, who is going to come and see me. This thing, seeing kids as a huge and unbearable responsibility and trouble is quite strange when you think about the excellent social system Finland has! Finns do not even have to worry about the education and even the children coming from the poorest family can reach the highest possible education.
What I know about few African guys and their thoughts about kids, it really seem to be that they think much more lightly (in a good sense) about children. Of course I do not know any African on a personal level since I have never dated one or been married to one.
Western women try to squese themself into a culture which they see as "oppressed" by other technologically and economically more advanced cultures, because those women think it's a sign of their true love towards their boyfriends. In return they expect infinite love, respect and admiration from the boyfriend who's "from a poor culture" and also expect to be accepted with open arms into the new culture. That is to be associated with the new culture as one of "them", as if one could just decide not to be part of the culture she grew up in.
As I already mentioned, those women love to play the victim card. "I'm part of the oppressed and discriminated people so feel sorry for me". That's how western social democratic societies work. Finland among many other western societies is less and less hierarchical, and more and more equal, yet the human need of social layers still exists. It's no longer acceptable to expect others to respect and envy you because you have a nice car or earn twice as much as the guy next door. This need has been replaced by worship of those who complain the most about injustices in life, and thus "earn" their face value.
A boring white Finnish boyfriend just doesn't bring the desperately needed attention and feeling of belonging to a misunderstood and oppressed exotic culture to a Finnish white female. Because it doesn't bring the status of victim whom everybody owes their respect and attention to. She wants to be seen as a strong woman who survived through all the oppression and has to struggle every day in the judgemental society without any choise. Paradoxically it is often the very same society that brings her and her exotic-looking baby, whom she unfortunately sees as a brand product like LV or Gucci, their food on the table.
"Okay, I do not confess that I would be wearing suomi-shirts and joining to traditional "tanhu"-classes just because of a finn! :) "
That's because Finnish culture isn't cool. It isn't cool because it has no value for those who desperately need to show what kind of injustice they have suffered and what kind of oppression they've had to go through. It's too long since the winter war :)
you are wrong.
Please try to present some facts instead of mere opinions and beliefs.
This link may be useful:
http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/portal/page?_pageid=2053,62063338&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL
I don't think it's a big secret that African men in general are worse providers than Finnish men. Worse jobs (if a job at all), infedelity and divorce are very common among African-Finnish couples. It's also very rare to find an African man, who takes proper care of alimony after divorce.
I know only few finnish-"african" (it is a continent after all and there is huge differences between the cultures indeed) couples that seem to be happily married. It is true in those cases that in the beginning the woman has been in the role of provider and earner of the family. Their husbands have been facing language problems and poor or non-fitting (in finnish standards) education.
I guess you are talking about child support more than actual alimony, because what I know about finnish social system, alimony deals are rare or not generally unknown.
I was thinking, is there certain qualities or something in the backround, social class or even characteristics, that is connecting these women together? I mean, have you any idea is there a certain type of women who are potential "wannabe blacks"? Or do they come from all the social classes or do they search for attention and "pity" for different reasons? Does education matter? Who is the typical wannabe black finnish woman?
Why the so called dull finnish culture is not enough for them? I could imagine that for some women it might be exciting to walk around with an exotic-looking baby and they may even enjoy the judgemental looks on some peoples faces. Who knows! Some people are exhibitionists and that may have many kind of variations. I guess that for some women a black boyfriend and cafe au lait baby could be even a statement against... what? A society? Other people? I do not believe that those reasons mentioned earlier would be the only thing, but they might be one of the levels.
I was talking generally about the "typical" behaviour for a woman in love with a foreign guy. I mean, based on that claim I should be dancing tanhu or bleaching my hair just for the sake of a finnish guy. :) I guess that different people see other cultures always rather exciting and therefore I could think that finnish culture is, after all, very exotic. It always depends on who is defining it.
in anybody's opinion of Finnish way of living and culture. Would it not be better to find some scientific studies - many of them are in English?
To be honest, I don't believe that you have ability to define Finnish culture.
Well, I have never said that I would be the one to define anything to the point of an absolute fact. I have mentioned many times that my words are honestly based on my own experiences and thoughts. Why would it be a sin to be interested in Finnish way of living and culture? If someone is interested, is it always necessarily bad and a sign of over-interest? Is that a Finnish way of thinking?
I didn't use the word "sin" - but you did for some reason unknown to me.
Your last sentence tells the rest of the story. "Finnish way of thinking." I can't help wondering your need to generalize and try to put us Finns into pigeonholes.
It is your opinion and you are entitled to have it. But it does not make it true. I think that when one is searching for answers and trying to observe another culture, you cannot avoid certain thoughts that may seem to be generalizing. What I know about people generally, they very easily seem to "know" some culture based on one person they have met or even if they do not personally know anyone. What I have heard from my boyfriend, you seem to enjoy and lust that style here in this channel.
But I believe it is a normal human being fault. If I try to put Finns into pigeonholes, then that is just exactly what people generally do to one another. Although, that was not my intention.
There's nothing wrong about generalizing things, or making generalizations on people's behaviour patterns. Otherwise we would never be able to learn from our mistakes. But when generalising one should always be open to adjusting his opinion based on apparent facts.
(This is not about you Mememe but only "generally about generazing")
The common characteristic of those women appears to be rebellious attitude towards society (or perhaps against father or an earlier bad relationship/ experience with a Finnish man). As you said, they are making a statement against society and manifesting that "I have the right to do this (and please someone insult me so I'll make a scene and beg for sympathy from everyone)". Social class is probably not an important factor.
The dull Finnish culture is not enough because anyone can be part of that. They must stand out and shine in the middle of the crowd, and expect others to feel sorry that "we've lost this magnificient and brave woman (to another culture) because we didn't treat her well enough."
Quite sadly they have a baby only to pursue their ideological reasons.
By the way I admire your patient and peaceful conversation style. It's a rare treat in this forum.
It is very interesting idea to think about the manifesting towards society and perhaps "ancient" attitudes or beliefs and also other Finns. If I am right, Finland has been rather closed country from the outside world and there has not been many foreigners around (unless you count all the people from the neighbour countries) but just only few ? decades. I could imagine that there could be also a wonderful thrill of a shock effect to suddenly show up at home with a black boyfriend.
I could also imagine that the "look at me, I have the right to do this" issue is to make a scene and enjoy the gossip and unjustice. I would say that some women would not even want to have sympathy but just they simply want to shock other people by being so "brave" and different. I am sure that if and when someone dares to say a word about the exotic-looking baby, they surely make the worst (and best) of the situation.
One funny thing about this wannabe-black culture is that it is not really african. Then again, maybe there is also another group, wannabe-africans who dress up in colourful rags and carry babies on their back (in finnish freezing cold winter) wearing sandals and huge piercings on their ears. (My misbehaving mood!:) When we think about the hip hop-wannabe-black culture, it is quite much afro-american phenomenon and subculture. That culture refers to history of slavery and the separation between blacks and whites. How far away from that culture could a finnish modern woman be?
Thank you for complimenting my conversative style so beautifully. I must thank you also for giving such an interesting conversation and also letting me to enjoy your excellent English.
I have nothing to add because I agree 100% with your words.
And I must thank you for your kind words!
niinpä!
relay wanna die?
I am here.